On “The Collapse”

Editor’s Note: It has been quite a decade … Huck becoming HAC, Joe Six Pack storming the Capitol on 1/6, the “Big Green Tractor” guy becoming the “Try That In a Small Town” singer, Donald Trump running for president on terminating the Constitution, etc.

In the lore of the White Nationalist movement, there will come a time in the future when the current system will “collapse” in a violent apocalypse. Various figures in the movement like William Pierce and Harold Covington spent decades speculating about “The Collapse” in fictional novels.

There is an entire wing of the White Nationalist movement which is organized around preparing for “The Collapse” which frustratingly never came. Accelerationist mass shooters like Dylann Roof have lashed out in a conscious attempt to ratchet up racial polarization to bring on “The Collapse.” As The Derb once famously said several years ago, if something cannot go on forever, it will stop. We all agree that current trends cannot continue indefinitely. At some point, social breakdown will stop.

Is that going to happen in our lifetimes?

Are we still centuries away from “The Collapse”?

I’m putting “The Collapse” in quotation marks because the subject elicits a fair amount of eye rolling. I have been watching people talk about “The Collapse” for twenty years. It is an article of faith. Nothing ever happens. We have all seen the system rocked by riots, recessions, mass shootings, etc.

If we look back through our own history though, we can identify at least three or four previous “collapses” or moments of discontinuity. The American Revolution (1776-1789) was a “collapse” that destroyed the previous order and created a new one. The Civil War and Reconstruction (1861-1877) was our second “collapse.” It destroyed the White Republic that was created by the Founders and replaced it with Abraham Lincoln’s Proposition Nation. Finally, the Great Depression and World War II (1929-1945) was our third “collapse,” which replaced the previous elite and regime with the Global American Empire.

In a “collapse,” the existing regime and its elites are torn down and replaced, usually in wartime against a foreign or domestic enemy. The civil order liquifies. Taboos erode. Norms dissolve. Some great national threat (Tories, Confederates, the Nazis) is identified and vanquished. Maybe it takes a revolution, a civil war, an economic depression or a foreign war, but the result is the same. The country redefines itself for the next several generations and eventually stability is restored and we pretend “the Republic” survived and is continuous with the regime that was established by the Founding Fathers. It is not an earth shattering end of the world or civilization ending apocalypse so much as it is about twenty years of tumult.

It takes about 75 to 80 years on average to see a “collapse.” It is something that only happens once in a long lifetime. Halley’s Comet, for example, will return in 2061. I was 5-years-old when it last visited in 1986. My eldest son will see Halley’s Comet when he is 46-years-old. 

The point is, what has it been? Twenty years? Forty years? That is not really a long period of time when you think about it. If “The Collapse” happened on our time scale, we would be living in a country like Somalia. There is a much longer periodicity to our American “collapses.”

We are due for “The Collapse.”

Isn’t it remarkable how it arrived right on schedule? We been have been living through “The Collapse” since at least 2020 and probably 2016. The existing order – whether it is politics, culture, economics or geopolitics – is obviously dying. You could say the fighting has already started in Ukraine. Japan invaded Manchuria about a decade before Pearl Harbor. The fighting didn’t begin in our last “collapse” for over a decade. By that point, the Great Depression had vanquished the Republicans.

“The Collapse” isn’t a deus ex machina that magically solves all our problems where we win and they lose. Needless to say, things aren’t looking good for the Right at the moment. Trump is facing nearly 1,000 years in prison. Most of his supporters are still living in denial of the severity of the situation. They still believe he is going to win the 2024 election and all this is going away. Every day seems to bring fresh evidence that the roller coaster of tumult which is the hallmark of previous “collapses” has arrived.

As a diagnosis though, yes.

We have entered one of these periods of history. This is very different from saying … this is awesome and exactly what we need because we are going to inevitably win. No, this is going to be very bad and likely to last for a while and before it is over it will likely throw our lives into chaos.

As for the prediction that our people wouldn’t begin to “wake up” until “The Collapse,” can we now say that was true?

Note: “The Collapse” has its own music. The public mood has has changed from what it was twenty years ago or even was ten years ago.


  1. “I’m putting “The Collapse” in quotation marks because the subject elicits a fair amount of eye rolling. I have been watching people talk about “The Collapse” for twenty years. It is an article of faith. Nothing ever happens.”

    Eye rolling indeed, I used to hear the collapse was coming just about everyday Barrock freebase Obammmer was prez. It’s just like Qanon’s the plan and Greta’s we’re in the 6th mass extinction…er is it the 5th? Anywho, it has an air of end times religiosity to it.

    • “it has an air of end times religiosity to it.”

      Speaking of which- HW, as a ‘confessional Lutheran,’ have you ever given thought to the apocalyptic ‘date-setting’ as an evangelical counterfeit to ‘the Collapse’?

      In other words, are all the desires of teh Rapture bunnies, merely political and societal Angst, viewed through the ‘rosy glasses’ of the ULTIMATE JUDGMENT BY GOD on the ‘world’? – Rather than what it was, a judgment on APOSTATE JEWRY in A.D. 70, that WAS the ‘end of the world’…. for the Talmudics? Which they have been in denial over, for the last 2000 years?

      Just curious…. the thought went through my head. What if religiosity has replaced Faith, and when Christ comes, ‘will he find faith on earth’…. or merely Apocalyptic expectation for Trump, 2024?

      Misericordie, Domine.

  2. Back in 1978, when I was 18, a small pamphlet came into my hands called The Upright Spike. It was written by “E.L. Anderson”. I later learned it probably came from Willis Carto. It predicted, using charts and graphs, an economic collapse within about a year. It even gave November 15, 1979 as a “give or take” date. A typewritten bootleg copy even showed up at my father’s workplace. Funny how I remember all that…Btw, Brad, do you want that Glomerata I mentioned in the Greenblatt thread?

  3. The East is rising the West is failing.

    South Africa was my wake up call, it’s still humming along, the City of Durban had major ethnic riots, with unbelievable damage two years ago still humming along.

    Seriously if the left will not go full blow Singapore style police force they loose
    Power with majority urban areas.




  4. I think, this time there will be not decades long transformation from one era to another. There is so much hostility in every corner of the Empire that short violent endgame is unavoidable.

    Similar to Soviet Union. Soviet Union also collapsed 2 decades. In the beginning of 1970ties, everybody understood that Soviet system just does not work. Then we went on fumes 20 years and probably would have gone further if some hotheads haven’t arranged the 1991 coup.

    US commies have also nervous breakdown and sooner or later they decide to act to save democracy from the people. Good news is that they don’t have much force. If they had remarkable force, they would have used it long ago. Corona demonstrated that society defense mechanisms still holding strong. Instead of global 1917, Covid came out as flop.

  5. I believe the only thing that will prevent a collapse is something like UBI or a guaranteed job. Trickle down economics and automation have lead to millennials not having economic success like Boomers. Now we have automation. We’ll either have mass poverty or we’ll have more Government in the economy.

    • Come to think about it, what’s really going to happen is that the middle class is going to collapse, but the rich are going to keep getting richer. But that’s a revolutionary situation.

  6. No, Governor Huckabee – with respect, we do not have to necessarily resort to bullets, because we do not have to stay together, as one.


    Because we are not one, nor have ever been that.

    We can acknowledge this lack of oneness with a national divorce.

    As the headlines read long ago : ‘THE UNION IS DISSOLVED!’.

    • “…As the headlines read long ago : ‘THE UNION IS DISSOLVED!’..”

      And this will make Ivan (civil war NOW, let’s be like Ukraine) Turgenev terribly happy, so he can see a bunch of Whites slaughter each other instead of falling on the Jews and deporting them in mass like we should.

  7. The collapse isn’t coincident with the causes because we are living on the wealth of infrastructure and technology our ancestors created.

    My analogy, we are like a rich heir mindlessly blowing the fortune his ancestors created.

  8. HW, the collapse is occuring across the Western world. However, in the U.S., the collapse may likely result in our enemies exerting a stronger hand over us because the leaders of the right-wing in this country are disingenuous, spineless cowards. In contrast with leftist politicians, state elected republican officials will cave to federal pressure and always back down from a fight. I could not imagine Brian Kemp, Ron DeSantis, Tate Reeves, Greg Abbott, or Kay Ivey mounting a serious campaign to resist the oncoming expansion of federal power. These politicians will surrender and run from any potential conflict that could benefit their supporters. They are beholden to the same monied interests as the Democratic party. These individuals have a material incentive to surrender, and they enjoy doing so. I predict that the collapse will result in more authoritarian governance exercised by leftist politicians who are anti-white and subservient to the Jewish community. However, the financial condition of the country may decline to a point where it may no longer be feasible for the federal and state governments to enforce draconian civil rights laws and other criminal laws in certain uncontrolled rural areas. These Orania-like pockets of white resistance may develop in the aftermath of the collapse due to the financial inviability of enforcing anti-white criminal and civil laws among rural populations that mount more than token resistance to their enforcement. These de facto autonomous zones would function as areas that are not routinely policed by federal or state law enforcement, roughly equivalent to the Parisian suburbs that are known as Muslim no-go zones. This world will be more anarchic as the centralizing power of the federal government weakens in terms of its solvency and legitimacy.

    • There hasn’t been any major pushback to it yet.

      I see the temperature rising though. I see the Right talking itself into resistance on a daily basis now. Nothing so far though.

      I am not going to project the immediate present into the future. It is getting worse. We will see

  9. So long as WHITES cooperate in allowing their excess productivity, which is substantial, to be spent on stupidity the collapse can be delayed indefinitely.

    You just have to run out of WHITES.

    • For dictatorship, they need plan, means, resources and manpower. And long term strategy. They don’t have any of the mentioned. They may try but it plays out like infamous Seattle Autonomous Zone. Short living absurd mess.

      All this New World Order or Forth Industrial Revolution or Globalism or whatever they like to call their power was dead on arrival.

      Bad thing is that their events are very violent. This may play out as Iraqi war. Short term event that was doomed from beginning…but million Iraqis are dead and economic damage is horrific.

      I personally predict something like Soviet 1991 coup. They make one last effort to preserve their power but they alienated society to the point that they don’t have any widespread support in the society so their coup fails almost immediately.

      We see it already now. Where is the massive organized anti MAGA movement ? They need massive army to force 100 million strong MAGA into submission but best they can is bunch of murders and imprisonments. More MAGA folk have died in the car crashes and other incidents than fell victims of their repressions.

      What they need is something like Lenin did in Russian Civil War. 13 million dead and the rest of 100 million forced into submission. Only force what can do it are immigrants. But Jews and communists alienated them too so if our side keep cold blood and manage to avoid RAHOWA, then those immigrants even ignore all this mess or come to our side and start their diversity enrichment in communists neighborhood’s like in France recently.

      So no dictatorship in sight. Like the greatest stateman in the US history says, we are winning yuuge.

      • “…I personally predict something like Soviet 1991 coup. They make one last effort to preserve their power but they alienated society to the point that they don’t have any widespread support in the society so their coup fails almost immediately…”

        We can drive them to this by changing the voting laws. It’s an existential threat to them. They will know it and will have to either come out and fight or submit. I do not think they have the power to openly do that. As of now, they are using stealth and insider cheating to maintain this power. Very different from an outright frontal violent power grab. Our interest should be to drive them and stop them driving us. Right now they are driving us, it appears to me, to a civil war where we slaughter each other like Ukraine, when instead we could change the rules, legally, and rule their asses totally.

  10. “The Collapse” never comes, until it does. Most of what I babble on about is schemes to mitigate the severity. I don’t believe it can be stopped. These inflection points. I’ve read a good deal of “cycles” type stuff. A lot of them. Many books, some I doubt that many people have heard of because I look for this sort of thing.

    And yet while these cycles exist, it does not mean that a complete destructive blow out is necessary. However, the general trend of these things are…no one does anything productive until a destructive event, of some sort, happens, and then it becomes baked in and causes mass destruction. It need not happen, but, it usually does. So I’m hopeful, but…it’s not looking good.

  11. John Michael Greer who wrote about what he called “catabolic collapse” pointed out that often people don’t get a big collapse all at once. It just happens here, and there, and things don’t go drastically bad, they just get a little worse each year over time. And some areas stay working pretty well, others start collapsing sooner. In this case, blue states are starting to fail first. Over time, some new arrangement will prevail. No, it won’t be the federal government, by that time, it will not really be functional, anymore than the Roman government was in the last century or two. By the time Rome fell, many people in Europe could have cared less.

  12. Anyone remember the ” Solidarity ” movement in Poland, we need a American style solidarity movement here/now, but we are so divided, in every way, just the way the elites want it, if we were together, we could run, these devil’s out of OUR country, in Five minutes,……..but we are hopelessly divided………shame, shame, on us all, I look at my child and these other kids and I feel shame, for this shit country, we have now….I personally lived in America, in a time, like no other in history, no nation has been blessed like one, these children will never have it as good as I/we have had, too those who WAR against our children, who wrecked this once NOBLE REPUBLIC, I will HATE you, till the LORD comes back, then I will hate no more, because I won’t have too……

  13. The collapse of the West is ongoing and will be similar to the Bronze Age collapse of 1177 BC. The Bronze Age lasted over 2 thousand years. Western civilisation about the same (starting from ancient Greece).

    All the migrants flooding the West will burn loot and pillage the decadent West, just like the Sea peoples did to the Bronze Age empires.

    If I told you the same families were responsible for both these events would you be astonished?

    Nothing is ever what it seems.

    • “…If I told you the same families were responsible for both these events would you be astonished?…”

      No, but I really want to know where you got the data to come to that conclusion. And I believe we can totally side step this. We CAN deport every damn one of these people.

  14. The Right’s signature issue is the Jewish question, and it’s well founded, but ultimately, white liberals are a major contributor to the fall of the West. They, along with the Jews, created feminism, called for endless immigration, and destroyed our manufacturing sector via leftist unions who made our workforces too expensive to employ. Now we have trannie and other dogshit causes that are also grinding us down.
    There is a military that could be patrolling the borders and streets……..but they’re usually overseas in places we don’t give a shit about, fighting people for reasons that escape them.
    Look at every cause or development that has been detrimental to the West. The Left is ALWAYS behind them. The thing is, their arguments are so easy to destroy, yet the Right can never gain traction, or get the upper hand.
    There’s no point beginning any pushback once we’re too outnumbered to be successful.

  15. A few things to keep in mind should a collapse come to pass—–

    A Jew does not take responsibility for their wrongs, miss deeds or sins. Admitting you are wrong and asking for forgiveness is a Christian thing not Jewish.

    Jews use scapegoats to rid themselves of sin. They blame an innocent goat for their sins and kill the goat to rid themselves of sin.
    So it is going to be China, China, China for all the things that go wrong……or white Supremacist, or Muslims or Russians, you name it, just not the Jews.

    • Bob B- precisely.

      1) “Of old the anathema was fearful and something to be avoided when it was imposed by the preachers of piety upon those who were guilty of impiety. But ever since the daring and insolent mindlessness of the pernicious contrary to every divine and human law and contrary to every way of thinking, both Greek and barbarian, became so insanely arrogant as to turn the anathema, which they deserved, back on the proponents of Orthodoxy, and as they bickered, in their barbarian frenzy, to accomplish their ecclesiastical transgression, then that fearful and last extremity of all penalties became degraded into a myth and a joke, or rather it became even desirable to the pious. Certainly, it is not the utterly presumptuous opinion of the enemies of truth that makes penalties (especially ecclesiastical penalties) fearful, but rather the culpability of those who are condemned; for guiltlessness changes their punishments into a mockery, and turns their condemnations back upon them, and results in undefiled crowns and immortal glory, rather than condemnation, for him who is castigated by them.

      Therefore, all the pious and holy prefer to be reviled myriads of times by those who are alienated from Christ rather than, with splendid acclamations, to have communion with their Christ-hating and God-hating villainies.”
      St. Photius the Great
      [Letter to Ignatius, Metropolitan of Claudiopolis,
      PG 102, 833 A-C]

      2) “Jewish Fragility refers to feelings of discomfort a Jewish person experiences when they witness discussions around race and theology.  This may trigger anger, fear, guilt, and violence. Some Jews may become insecure when other people groups claim privileges that Jewish people enjoy.
      If a Jewish person  becomes defensive, a non-Jew may feel obligated to comfort the Jew. For example, some Christians comfort Jews by telling them they are “God’s children,” while some Europeans speak words establishing racial self-hatred.   These non-Jews seek to unburden themselves from socially constructed sin accusations (racism or anti-semitism).

      Manifestations of Jewish fragility commonly include accusing others of what they do themselves. These include, but are not limited to:
      * Inventing a social sin that only applies to non-Jews (anti-semitism).
      * The privilege of their own racial homeland while accusing others of a social sin (racism) for seeking the same privilege.
      * Establishing organizations promoting the interests of their own race while denying that privilege to others, specifically Whites.
      * Violence toward those who do not submit to religious, historical, and cultural narratives promoted by the Jews.
      One manifestation of Jewish fragility was the reaction to Jesus Christ, who verbally chastised them for  hypocrisy. As a result, the Jews used their power and influence (Jewish privilege) to have him executed.”
      – Fritz Berggren, PhD
      28 February 2021

      3) Jewish War Criminal Zelensky says he will destroy earth before he surrenders..” – Nick Fuentes

      They would rather DESTROY THE WORLD than admit their guilt.
      This is why they were forcibly REMOVED from over 109 nations!

      THEY ARE SATANIC. “Ye are of your father the devil, and the deeds of your father YE WILL DO.”- Jesus, John 8

      BECAUSE JEWS and ONLY Jews- are guilty of DEICIDE!

      “Christianity is our only real enemy since all the political and economic phenomena of the bourgeois states are only its consequences,” Rakovsky, says. (All page citations from Griffin, Fourth Reich of the Rich, 1988, p. 264) – ‘Christian’ Rakovsky (born CHAIM Rakover in 1873)

      “The Jews have a right to subordinate to themselves the rest of mankind and to be the masters over the whole earth. This is the historic destiny of the Jews”
      Harry Waton, A Program for the Jews and an Answer to All Anti-Semites (New York Committee for the Preservation of the Jews, 1939), pp. 99-100

  16. I recall Jacob Dreizin’s comments to ignore the GOP and vote democrat. They are destroying the country, and the quicker they have complete power, the quicker the whole thing will collapse and we move on to something better. The GOP will only prolong the decline and stupidly try to “reform” what can’t be reformed.
    I don’t really have much to contribute to a big plan of reaction. Everyone seems stagnant with abulia. All those guns that will supposedly take back the republic…what are they, really? Just a male vibrator to be kept behind doors and savored.
    I do think Harold Covington’s book offered a remarkably prophetic view of things, especially where the city would essentially become uncontrollable, and federal troops and contractors eventually would patrol the limit to keep the “citizens” from breaking out and ravaging the white countryside. California seems to be the first salvo. I’m glad I’m in Missouri, where it’s still pretty ordered. Location will be essential in regard to how we will cope.
    I’m 71 now, and for 30 years hoped to see real change in WN getting something together, but didn’t happen. I’ll just listen to Voltaire and cultivate my own garden.
    Interestingly enough, Counter-currents is doing a three part series on the fiction of Harold Covington, Aug, 24/Sept. 4/sept./ 5 editions. An in-depth survey of his works.

    • “…All those guns that will supposedly take back the republic…what are they, really? Just a male vibrator to be kept behind doors and savored…”

      Maybe, maybe not. It certainly creates uncertainty in the minds of those who would oppress us. No one knows. There are many, many, many, times in history when the last straw was placed on the camels back and all hell broke loose. If all these gun owners decided they had had enough, then they would be ruined. Especially if they did not frontally assault anything, but only used guerilla warfare. I expect you might begin to see something like this coming. People see what they do to people who try to lawfully change things by their vocal public disapproval. This will only drive them to do it on the sly, not end it. They don’t have the man power to deal with it, unless, there was a long time for them to build up. Which may be happening now, but the only way they can rule is by very strong force, which in turn could be their doom.

  17. Correct Arrian.I watch on TV as thousands of Whites turn out for a Clemson football pre-celebration so all the useless White traitors can worship their nigger gods and inculcate their children into same.I see no redemption for most Whites.As I have said before all of the good are gone.Sure there are remnants like us but Satanism via the Jews has destroyed our people.People may mock me but we are in the End Times.The only thing to do is thank the Lord we are White and proud of it.We are not deceived.We are the Chosen because we chose Christ as Lord.We are intelligent and the last of the best.Be happy people because all is waiting in our true home.Kin folk and ancestors we have never met but will meet.And the Jews,the enemy of all decent,have eternal Hell waiting for them.We can rejoice at knowing the enemies of the Cross will suffer and suffer.The Devil will try hard to deceive you out of your place with God,do not allow this.Merely say leave Satan in the precious name of Jesus.This world is truly crazy and it is unlike anything from the past.Defend yourselves but don’t lift a finger to stop the giant freak show.My Savior Jesus is my protector.The Father loved us before we were born.Do not lose faith in them.

    • @Rebel Roy…

      I appreciate so very much that you have maintained our traditional Southern State of mind. You are a blessing to behold.

      Please do not despair, or lose faith in us, your people.

      We have been subject to the most intense mind-control system ever devised. Moreover, we have been hurt badly by the fact that the Jew England Yankee United States’ has dutifully shared so much of their booty with us.

      We, Southerners, have been made wealthy beyond our dreams, BUT, as our Lord said – rich men have a hell of a time getting into heaven.

      If you peak under the hood of the comment, you see that what Our Lord is saying is that wealthy people tend to be selfish and self-absorbed, that state of mind not something which, in the longrun, our Lord will bless.

      Also, we are suffering in Modernity, because it has removed us from the agricultural, fundamental domestic process orientation and local commercial enterprises that help give to all their humanity.

      Be patient, for, one way or the other, we will get out of this mess.

      The South Will Rise Again.

  18. lawl

    “There’s a big story beat about how Canada in my story will end up becoming richer and more powerful yet that will bring more problems and issues on a political level. There’s lots of lore and depth to Canada but long story short is that they have sacrificed their liberal values and morality to gain their current power and wealth.”


    bonus CanCon:

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