Poll Watch: Standing With Israel and Ukraine

32 Comments

1. Around 90% of Americans were against entering WW2 as late as the eve of Pear Harbor. Just saying.

   • Of course.

     The disconnect between Congress and public opinion on Israel is huge. We can use this fact to raise awareness about who owns Congress

     • My point was we are just one false flag or false move by Hezbollah or Iran away from making all the above numbers null and void…. I remember on 9/11 my mother called me at my home that morning in hysterics. I felt nothing about it. Wicked old me.

       • A terrorist attack in the U.S., even a false flag will result in people asking uncomfortable questions such as: “How did they get in here, did they sneak through the open border? Why are their names always Akmed or Mohammed?” etc. The rally ’round the flag thing is over since GWB II lied the country into two unnecessary wars. The Great American Public supported both Iraq Wars because people believed they would be over quickly with low casualties. They were also fought by volunteers and someone else did the killing and dying.

         The U.S. Government doesn’t have enough troops or anything else to fight another war although if Our Greatest Ally demands U.S. ground troops, they will get them. This puts Taiwan at risk and writes off Ukraine, there aren’t enough supplies for both Our Greatest Ally and Ukraine so they better make the best deal they can with Russia. The U.S. Government will have to turn to conscription after the next election but disaster may overcome them first.

         • You are likely correct. No doubt the usual suspects are lining up several Muslim terrorists to carry out such attacks as I write. The Muritard Idiocracy will respond as programmed, volunteering to join the ranks of the Woke Rainbow Legion to teach those filthy goat-fucker Muslims a lesson, just like they did not so long ago in Iraq and Trashcanistan.

           Nobody will even ask the question of how is it that the borders are undefended, and who it was that engineered for this to be the way it is. Just a tiny bit of research and they might discover that the nice folks who left our own gates open are descendants of the very folks who opened the gates for invading Muslim armies as they entered Visigoth (Christian) Spain. Can’t have that, can we? The two-millenia hate, to build on one of Orwell’s better phrases.

2. https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/447614746/

3. If I’m not mistaken, then the accusations of someone being an “Israel operative” is because they mistake sympathy for Palestinians with wanting Palestinian refugees to become our neighbors. That is not the case for me, and I don’t think you want that either, Brad. This should never be an American issue, both the triggers and the fallouts. What matters in covering Israel’s actions is that there are people in power, masks off, supporting the deaths of civilians.

4. Re: “I sympathize with Palestinians, but I don’t want to be involved in the conflict between these two groups. We should mind our own business and focus on our own problems”:

   But you live in the belly of the Beast, so you are involved, and your taxes (and your share of the national debt) are paying for the imperialism, while the elites who are the main beneficiaries of imperialism pay little or nothing. So you are responsible, unless you pack up and leave the U.S. You give tacit consent to it by staying here, and you give explicit consent to it by voting in its elections. If we could really “mind our own business,” then we wouldn’t be living within the private profit system of greedy, cutthroat competition that MUST do imperialism. Private enterprise must constantly expand its “share of the market” by destroying all competition, until it gains total, universal monopoly (not only locally and nationally but worldwide) so it can extract the maximum possible “rent” from all humanity. So the system you live in CANNOT stay at home. Imperialism is its nature, and logic, and Populism won’t change it. Populism is a pressure-relief safety valve that preserves/conserves the system. Populism (as in “nationalism, populism, reaction”) is a conservative, reactionary device that releases a dangerous build-up of social pressure safely, to prevent an actual explosion of genuine, grassroots peasant revolution – and when populism has done its job, preventing revolution, the super-wealthy elites double down on exploitation to make up for lost time. Finally, I do not understand “focus on our own problems.” The problems of the workers of the entire world are the same problems that the working class has here. We need to see the forest, not just the nearest tree.

   • I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. I believe capitalism is often just a rationalization for greed, viciousness and human stupidity. I wouldn’t want something like communism in the old Soviet Union or modern day China. But a good amount of socialism and workers rights would be very appropriate.

     Things like this could be done in the U.S. but the rich have too much power. Goods that are manufactured under sweat shop labor conditions, where the workers have little or no rights would be banned from being sold in America. That would keep all of the Chinese junk out of here. The American rich want this shit, they’re ones that have invested in China and have built them up, they want all of the cheap crap being brought in.

   • A comment posted on Moon of Alabama today agrees with my view of the reason for the war: “Palestine sits on real estate worth trillions of dollars – not just the gas and oil in the Mediterranean (off the coast of Gaza) but also underneath Gaza, not just the geopolitical location of a potential linkage of high speed rail from the Taba on the Red Sea to the Mediterranean, not just the potential of integrating into China’s belt and road project and taking Egypt, Jordan and Lebanon with them, connecting as hub with all the potential that offers, but more important becoming an important financial center for middle eastern banking and brokerage, as the rest of the world dumps the petrol dollar for a variety of currencies. All of these pose an extraordinary level of threat – not just to Israel, but to the financial, energy, and geopolitical interests of the Global West as a whole. (So this war is really) not a war of religion, not a war for Israeli security – but war wherein the outcome has the potential to realign and restructure the entire Mediterranean Basin”: https://www.moonofalabama.org/2023/11/palestine-open-thread-2023-263.html?cid=6a00d8341c640e53ef02c8d3a27021200d#comment-6a00d8341c640e53ef02c8d3a27021200d Like most “poor” Third world countries, Palestine is RICH. Palestine is only poor because it is being destroyed by those who want their land (space for development) and their natural resources, and to prevent them becoming an independent people’s socialist republic that would grow and prosper without IMF loans. Always follow the money! See who benefits, “For the love of money is the root of all this evil”: First Timothy 6:10

5. It doesn’t matter what 90% say they don’t want to pollsters. It wouldn’t make any difference if the entire population of three hundred million workers/consumers marched in the streets, because the 1/10th of one percent (actually less than that) have all the wealth, and therefore the power, to give orders and have them obeyed. Follow the money, see who benefits, and remember there is no actual conspiracy, only the nature and logic of the system that makes everything happen as it does. Until this system of greed and usury (exploiting others) is REPLACED with a better system of caring for others, the wars and other unnecessary human suffering and destruction of the natural environment will not cease. We should not give all attention to the U.S.’s (and its proxy/colony Israel’s) current escalation of the long genocide of Palestine, treating it as a shocking anomaly, without also giving attention to, and seeing the common pattern in hundreds of other U.S. imperialist operations taking place all over the world.

   • M R 1831,

     Quite the inverse.

     USA is a vassal state of Israel. Nikki Haley said the quiet part out loud.

6. Hunter, after all you’ve done, the sole point of it all comes down to ensuring people know it’s “Duh, Jews?” All the discussion of policy, is to make people aware “Duh, Jews,” own Congress? All the talk about the antecedents of modern day politics, liberal-conservatives, the Civil War history lessons, H.L. Mencken, etc, is the objective that people will know “Duh, Jews” run everything? The thought that is where you are going with this after all your work makes me weep.

   I’ve witnessed true atrocities up close. It wasn’t done by Jews. It was done by Moslems. I’ve witnessed true organized crime operations. It wasn’t done by Jews, it was done by Catholics. I’ve witnessed ratlines, coming across the border, carrying dope to immiserate and murder our citizens. It wasn’t done by Israelis. It was done by Mexicans. Though, I have had the chance being the victim to a Jew trying to murder me. However it was stopped by Israelis.

   But all that doesn’t count. That’s just my personal experience. No, the experience everyone has with atrocities on tv is what counts. The atrocities by “Duh, Jews” recently in Gaza are the worst evah! That the hundreds of thousands of men, women, and children killed, dismembered, flattened by Moslems in Iraq and Afghanistan, or the hundreds of thousands of men, women, and children slaughtered by machete wielding Blacks in Rwanda, or the women holding babies as they fell 100 stories to their death escaping flames from WTC, those weren’t worse than the horrible atrocities, “the worst in my lifetime,” being done right now with 9,000 killed supposedly by “Duh, Jews?”

   You’ve commented on others doing this career arc. So, I ask in turn, when will you finish your right wing arc with putting on the Nazi uniform, the George Lincoln Rockwell speeches are made, and the calls to demonstrate in Marquette Park, and Skokie Illinois are called for against “Duh, Jews?” Because, if it’s all about “Duh, Jews,” that is where this ends. Sad. You’d get more clicks if you wrestled with the Gay Mexican for who is the rightful Fuhrer of our people. It would also be more exciting.

   • Re: “the worst in my lifetime,” being done right now with 9,000 killed supposedly by Duh, Jews? (…) when will you finish your right wing arc with putting on the Nazi uniform, the George Lincoln Rockwell speeches are made, and the calls to demonstrate in Marquette Park, and Skokie Illinois are called for against ‘Duh, Jews?’ Because, if it’s all about ‘Duh, Jews,’ that is where this ends”:

     There have NOT been “9,000 killed supposedly.” There have been many more than that killed ACTUALLY. The official, known, death count from the U.S. imperialist bombing was over 10,000 by the end of last week, and there are thousands more “missing,” whose bodies or body parts, or ashes, have not yet been found and identified, and some never will be. Also note that more victims of the U.S. (and Israeli proxy) carpet bombing campaign are in the process of dying from their wounds. The entire population has been shell-shocked and will suffer from PTSD. Israel bragged yesterday that “1 out of 100” are already dead, and suggested the entire population deserves to die “because they are all Hamas.” Note that Hamas is a political party, and that the majority of Palestinians of both the West Bank and Gaza voted for Hamas in the last election – the last election that the U.S. allowed – which means Hamas is still the legitimate, democratically-elected government of Palestine, because the U.S. has not allowed another election to take place since then, knowing that Hamas would win again. The U.S. which claims to support democracy did not allow the winner Hamas to govern the West Bank, putting a reliably obedient Palestinian puppet, Mahmoud Abbas, in charge of corralling his fellow Palestinians of the West Bank, inside their ever-narrowing fenced-in ghetto spaces that make the map of West Bank look like Swiss Cheese. Also note that the U.S./Israel had originally promoted, funded, and used the “radical Muslim” Hamas movement as a weapon to stop the advance of socialism in Palestine. The U.S. always uses religious fundamentalists or fascists to prevent or overthrow socialism, before it begins to fight or pretend to fight them later. Most of the dead counted so far are women and children. Some rabbis have explained that Palestinian babies can be killed justifiably because they would otherwise grow up to become “terrorists.” This is the similar to the view of some White supremacists that Negro births should be reduced, to reduce crime in the future. They don’t seem to mind neo-colonial massacres and genocidal treatment of Sub-Saharan Africans as much as this genocide of the indigenous people of Palestine by a Jewish religious state. The U.S.’s chief colony and military proxy Israel is a religious state established for the members of one religion (not for a race as such, determined by genetics, but for religious membership determined by birth from recent ancestors who were/are members, or by conversion, regardless of genetics, race or ethnicity) in which the few (about 20%) non-Jewish Palestinian citizens are treated as “less equal,” second-rate citizens. But the religion of Judaism or being Jewish is NOT the cause of this genocide. I will not repeat here yet again what I think is the real problem and the only solution to the problem.

     • You’re Welsh, correct? You understand that if you oppose the Welsh (a Celtic people whose closest linguistic relatives are the Bretons of western France) being erased from the earth altogether – which is the more-or-less open plan of the empire, YOU are a “white supremacist”. The oligarchs own both the “left” and the “right”. Their controlled media-machine has been used to create bogeymen for both factions.

       Divide and rule is a very old tactic used by elites, especially the most criminal ones, for literally thousands of years. The elites of Britain’s empire used the colonial white armies – often drawn from poor white groups like the Welsh, Scots and Irish plus poor English – as muscle for their giant looting operations all over the planet. In India they even used Sikhs and others (sepoys) to serve as muscle alongside the whites. The looting racket is still going on to this very day. Why did the US Army occupy the poppy-fields of Pashtunistan for two solid decades? To make sure the Pashtunis understood the finer points of feminism and gay rights?? The Sacklers laugh at such explanations as they count their endless shekels.

       • Re: “if you oppose the Welsh (…) being erased from the earth altogether – which is the more-or-less open plan of the empire, YOU are a white supremacist”:

         Ethno-centricism, attachment to tribe or extended family, love of home, love of soil, is a normal, natural human tendency; and it is naturally resistant and opposed to efforts to destroy those objects of affection and identity. Some might call this resistance “supremacism,” but supremacism as such involves hating, mistreating, bullying, lording over, and even killing, foreigners and those of other ethnicities, tribes or families – or wanting to do so and trying to do so. The Welsh have long been one of the most colonized peoples on earth, and today would be the poorest country in Western Europe if Wales was counted as a separate state. There is always a “Welsh independence movement,” and the language is taught to children in school now, and there are many Welsh language road signs (good for tourism) and national anthem singing at the games, but Welsh socialism has mostly been subverted to a fake-left wokeism (although there is more real Left left in Wales than in England). Decades ahead of Marx and Engels, we already had people’s social cooperatives circumventing the capitalist, usury system as much as possible: “The first co-operative societies were established in Wales in the early 1840s, including one started by Chartists in Pontypridd. The first co-operative that endured was set up in Cwmbach, in 1859/60, which was modelled on the pioneer co-operative, in Rochdale, which had been running since 1844 (…) Co-operative societies gave support from the ‘cradle to the grave’. Individual societies provided every sort of service that a member might want, including funeral services and memorial headstones (…) it was a way of life for many and provided extensive social provision” – including education! (Source of quote: BBC History, Wales) Note that Welsh Christian Revival and Christian Socialism went hand in hand. The great Christian socialist sermon “O Gaethiwed i Ryddid” (From Slavery to Freedom), interpreting the history of the world from the Garden of Eden to the present day from a socialist perspective was preached in churches and meetings all across Wales.

         • There is a considerable Welsh enclave in Argentina, one of the largest Welsh-speaking areas in the world outside of Wales itself. It might be worth a visit for you to see if the Welsh there are practicing the ‘old-socialism’ you describe. If the UK descends into total shit, having a place to run to is always worth looking into. Ireland has the identical problem, by the way. The so-called nationalists there pride themselves on Michael Collins and his defeat of the black and tans but they’re fine being subjects of the empire under the EUSSR flag. Either way, the (((City of London))) calls the shots – same as two centuries ago.

         • @ Exalted Cyclops”:

           I’m familiar with the Welsh in southern Argentina (Patagonia), who are slowly, inevitably becoming Spanish (Argentinians). Speaking of Patagonia, Israelis have bought HUGE tracts of land in Patagonia, and in adjacent southern Chile – to the great consternation of the indigenous people who say the land is theirs and used to roam it freely. The Israelis have even been conducting military exercises there!

           Re: “Ireland has the identical problem (as the Welsh) by the way. The so-called nationalists there pride themselves on Michael Collins and his defeat of the black and tans but they’re fine being subjects of the empire (…) Either way, the (((City of London))) calls the shots”:

           James Connolly the leader of the Irish Socialists (who was caught and executed with a firing squad) warned his fellow rebels again and again that fighting for independence from England is not enough. He said “We will have to fight the Bankers, and the Bankers’ greasy Hands,” and that “unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic, your efforts will be in vain. England will still rule you. She will rule you through her capitalists, through her landlords, through her financiers, through the whole array of commercial and individualist institutions she has planted in this country and watered with the tears of our mothers and the blood of our martyrs.”

7. Imagine if you will a society so stupid and demoralized, it can’t even stand up for itself.

8. Note, when Senator Gay Bubba from South Carolina mentions math is taught in Gaza as there are 10 Jews, and you kill 6, how many Jews are left, he is actually correct. The Moslems teach similar things elsewhere but replace Jews with Infidels or Jews with Americans. Amazingly, we are also just a day away from that being taught here at home but replace Jews with Whites and Jewishness with Whiteness.

   What you all don’t understand is the youth is literally indoctrinated across the world against us, and not just overseas but here at home. There are dozens of Gazas being created right now inside America. What Israel is experiencing now will soon be experienced here. Except there won’t be anyone coming to help us cuz we did nothing and stayed out of it overseas when we had a chance.

   • There are not Gazas in our midst. There are niggers and Spics controlled by Jews.

     • Niggers are very open and receptive when it comes to discussing jews.

   • “Except there won’t be anyone coming to help us cuz we did nothing and stayed out of it overseas when we had a chance.”

     That’s a load of neo-con bullshit right there. We’re in such a sorry state because we meddled too much where we didn’t belong.

     • Like all Neo-klowns, the AGB troll conveniently forgets to note that the all of the wars on behalf of ‘Murika’s greatest ally’ and various ‘outposts of democracy’ (like Jewkraine) are promoted by the very same folks who advocate the border remain wide open to an ongoing invasion, led by NGOs they fund. Instead of sending the military to close the fucking border, it’s sent instead to help our ‘greatest ally evah’ plus the cokehead tricky-dick of porno-piano over in Kyiv. It’s been this way for decades of course.

       Voat moar harder, zeks – because doing the same stupid thing over and over is sure to produce a different result this time. It’s like drunken gamblers in Vegas on slot-machines who don’t get that the house ultimately wins, except the Vegas drunks actually have better odds.

9. Jews made yuuge mistake by attacking left. Those Jew own empowered aggressive Brats are known for their hatred and they don’t forget.

   I have long waited massive clash between Brats and Swamp and now we may finally be there. Stalin made his 1937 year purges with Brats. Young aggressive Brats with Yeshov in charge wiped out Lenin old Jewry.

   As much I know, this remains one of the biggest Jew slaughter in history. Approx 500 000 of chosen ones vanished.

   I think that at the current moment is beneficial to support Brats. Jews gave us historical opportunity to attack them and it is wise to use it.

   • Juri is the Borat of OD – a jewish guy playing the role of a Gentile. Niiiiiiiice.

     • Shalom.

       Kazakhstan is nice country btw. And example that even very serious demographic changes can be reversed.

       Population of Kazakhstan according to ethnic group
       Kazakhs census 1989 39.7%
       Kazakhs estimate 2023 70.7%

       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Kazakhstan

10. Talk is cheap. Of those who stand with Israel how many would be willing to send their kids to fight and die for Israel, how many?? I am telling you, blood changes everything, and American has yet to bleed.

    • Robert there are large numbers of Christian Zionists who urge their kids to sign up for the military so they too can sing the Israel National Anthem and die for ‘muh Izrael’. Hell there are Murikan mercs in Jewkraine who serve as the “enforcement” troops behind the hapless Ukrainians being pushed into the meatgrinder. They are there to shoot any who show reluctance to die for their hooked-nosed ‘president’ and his Jew-trillionaire backers on (((Wall Street))) and the (((City of London))). There was a recent video where two Murikan mercs started shooting at retreating Ukrainians but the Ukes got the drop on them and killed both in short order. Good riddance to bad trash.

      • A Christian protects and defends the weak and the innocent. They these Christian zionists you speak of are not Christian, they are Jews who call themselves Christian. A Jew preys on the weak and the innocent. A great lesson is being taught here by God for all who are willing to open their eyes and see. All who seek to hold power over their fellow man, be they Jews, Irish, or fake predator Christians are doomed without Christ. Christ is and always will be the king of kings. People will not bow down to a corrupt immoral leader, they will fight you with all their might just like the Palestinians are doing……and just like Chinese did under Mao……..and just like southern man generations ago.

11. I think the real target is Iran. When Shlomo wants war they just start slaughtering civilians of the ethnic group they want to incite. Ukraine and Danzig are classic examples. I think we are about to find out if our 40 year old untested nuclear arsenal actually works.

12. Even the Young Turks is very close to calling out the international jew