Looking back, I am far less patriotic today than I was eight years ago. I was in my second year of college at Auburn University during the 9/11 attacks. My immediate reaction was to go online and say that America should declare war on the entire Islamic world and drop nuclear bombs on Muslim population centers. Such was my level of political maturity at the time.
A few months later (November/December), I had founded my first vBulletin political discussion group (‘Freedom Forums’), read Pat Buchanan’s Death of the West, and inadvertently stumbled onto Stormfront. It was the beginning of my political radicalization. I was growing more concerned about the deluge of ‘illegal aliens’ into South Alabama than Islamic terrorists. My pursuit of relevant material on this subject led me to the White Nationalist underworld.
The faintest spark of patriotism died in me long ago. Now, I look upon the U.S. federal government and its negro president as a hated alien regime, one which I would just as soon cast off. The state propaganda that will deluge the airwaves today won’t resonate here at all.
I’ve given up on the United States. Have you changed since 9/11/2001?
I was a year and a half out of college (quit in my 4th year), and I was at a similar “just nuke em” place.
And now, no, I wouldn’t shed blood for this empire. I’ve been reading Gibbon’s Decline and Fall of Rome. The parallels are fascinating.
” Have you changed since 9/11/2001?”
At thirty-two I remember the Cold War which could be seen as a real conflict. This has colored my view towards the world considerably: after you have been threatened to be nuked by Soviets (seen ‘The Day After’ or even ‘Red Dawn’? ) some rag-heads in a stolen plane seem alot less intimidating.
First started questioning the State way before 9/11.
For example I was FORCED to watch ‘Schindlers List’ when it came out in school (took field trip to theatre) and I don’t see why such an old event such as the Holo-hoax should be made such a big deal of. As time marchs on events are supposed to diminish in importance, not increase!!!
Also the US intervention in Serbia seemed really dumb. ‘Why should I care if Croats and Serbs 3,000 miles away want to do bad things to each other?’ I had wanted to possibly serve in the Navy prior to then, but there is no way I would want to contribute towards such Globo-Policing as is now done! No way!
If anything the big thing has been the emergence of the Orwellian ‘Department of Homeland Security’ in the aftermath. It is telling that the liberal Obama administration has not gone to work dismantling it…
I’ve definitely changed since 2001, but funny enough I was already against the status quo back then but for much different and more juvenile reasons…
One of the things that I always liked about you, Prozium, is that you are willing to change your views based upon facts and evidence. You aren’t an ideologue trying to prove something after-the-fact.
I made similar changes for similar reasons. Just like yourself, Prozium, the American myth no longer resonates with me.
However, I don’t think this process is solely limited to alienated would-be nationalists. The more vanilla conservative types in my extended family are just now starting [!] to say similar things concerning the end of America and how this is no longer the country they once knew. Of course, they view our decline through the lens of conservatism and thereby can’t understand the true meaning of it nor why its happening. But all the same, even they are starting to let go of those American myths that once sustained their political beliefs.
Perhaps the myth of America will have to be fully unraveled in our hearts (as a people on this continent) before such a thing is ever to happen politically.
I had just started a new job a week or two before that fateful day.I was cynical and unpatriotic then and even more so now.I had long since “given up on the U.S..” One change for me since then is;I no longer have the same (or any) job.The old job was real estate related.Change you can starve in.God bless America!
My racialism matured before 9-11. I had been progressing naturally toward it during my youth.
There was no traumatic or epiphanous moment. Although having online access to information not easily available to the public by other means helped a great deal.
Exposure is a key ingredient to whites awakening. Our enemies’ control of the media is so crucial to their power.
When I first saw the footage of the planes crashing into the buildings, it was surreal for me. I was more struck by other people’s reactions than my own.
I’m not quite as self-hating and bitter about America as many white nationalists. Some think being American is meaningless or despicable. Maybe for them it is.
Like Mark, my racialism matured long before 9/11. For me, it happened when I joined the military in the mid-70s. I had never been around blacks before and didn’t really have a bunch of preconceived notions about them. I soon came to realize that there are real racial differences, and to the extent that more NAMs entered the country in significant numbers, America became less America to me. The narrative and ‘myth’ of a country holds when its citizens buy into it, which was plausible to do when we were a white country. The myth being taught these days is that (white) America was evil and didn’t start to become less evil until the 60s. This is something no right thinking white person would ever buy into.
9/11 didn’t change the way I felt about America, but it did harden my feelings about Muslims.
America isn’t America anymore to me. It becomes more loathsomely third world by the day.
John D, the Chinese, Burmese, Koreans, Hmong…they all contribute their part to making America less American. Why speak only of ‘non-Asian minorities’ as causing this?
For me, 9/11 changed everything. Before that I did not care about politics at all (I was 16), let alone did I posses any meaningful ethnic identity. The attacks and the ensuing debate in the Netherlands about Muslim immigration let me to question core assumptions about the kind of society we had become. Browsing internet forums, among them Stormfront, I found my way to American Renaissance and Kevin MacDonald both of whom made me a committed racialist with a distrust of the Jewish community, together with the writings of The Phora’s administrator.
Prozium, did you ever hear of the Golden State Party, “a self-proclaimed pro-white group pushing for political representation in California.”? Do you expect change to first arise in a front line state like California (I mean a state where racial matters are at their worst)? Read about it here: http://www.ocregister.com/articles/white-readers-groups-2555760-wrote-political. This is the first time I heard about it and unfortunately the leader of the party seems to have a less-than-spotless record (sent to prison for assault).
I’m out of the mainstream of this site — more of a “radical centrist” than an actual conservative. I was on vacation on that day (had driven past the WTC just three days before, on my way to Cape Cod). I had definitely become much more of a race realist in the previous five years after actually working with large number of blacks, who, despite the rhetoric of denial of opportunity, were clearly inferior performers to the whites.
What 9/11 should have taught us is that people are shaped by their roots. A bunch of Saudis who want to fly airliners but not land or take off should have been setting off alarms everywhere. Instead, Transportation Secretary Mineta makes a doctrine out of the irrelevance of ethnicity in transportation security… right.
The first step needs to be honesty. So once we get rid of race-based speech and journalism codes, we can start making some headway.
This sounds familiar. I’ve definitely changed since 9/11, especially as I was living in Greenwich, CT, at the time and met many of the firefighters streaming back from the carnage. Friends of my family lost loved ones in the event.
Since then my views have become much more radical, and explicit, even terroristic (from which I don’t back down), in that I don’t think we should target freedom fighters in Iraq and Afghanistan–I believe we should directly target the Marxist anti-White Left, and their mass supporters, here in the US. We need to wage a hard civil war and take no prisoners. Forget about waging counter-insurgency in the Middle East. We–meaning White Americans, patriots, and conservatives–have our own insurgency to conduct right here in America. So, I have become less conservative, and more radical.
In short, I crave bloodshed. I desire war. I want to see the blood of Marxists, Jews, negroes, Hispanics, and White traitors, flow in the streets. I’m still fairly young, and, the way things are going, I may get my wish. God willing.
Admiral, I agree we should leave the Iraqi and Afghan freedom fighters alone. They just want freedom, and mean us Americans no harm. Just as we wouldn’t want China toppling our government, raping our women, massacring our people, and destroying our sovereignty, we should leave our victims alone.
However, I have no craving for bloodshed; an outright Civil War doesn’t always come out as it’s romanticised to be.
”I look upon the U.S. federal government and its negro president as a hated alien regime, one which I would just as soon cast off. The state propaganda that will deluge the airwaves today won’t resonate here at all.” ( — from the log entry)
“I’ve been reading Gibbon’s Decline and Fall of Rome. ”
Arguably the most important book ever written.
Well, if the goal is ethnic separatism, I don’t see how a White Nationalist can feel patriotic about a country he wants to break-up. Quebec separatists, to offer an example, never stop heaping scorn on Canada. Ditto for Canada’s western separatists. Legendary lawyer Doug Christie:
Is America coming apart?
Posted: September 10, 2009
7:53 pm Eastern
Flying home from London, where the subject of formal debate on the 70th anniversary of World War II had been whether Winston Churchill was a liability or asset to the Free World, one arrives in the middle of a far more acrimonious national debate right here in the United States.
At issue: Should Barack Obama be allowed to address tens of millions of American children, inside their classrooms, during school hours?
Conservative talk-show hosts saw a White House scheme to turn public schools into indoctrination centers where the socialist ideology of Obama would be spoon-fed to captive audiences of children forced to listen to Big Brother — and then do assignments on his sermon.
The liberal commentariat raged about right-wing paranoia.
Yet Byron York of the Washington Examiner dug back to 1991 to discover that, when George H.W. Bush went to Alice Deal Junior High to speak to America’s school kids, the left lost it.
“The White House turned a Northwest Washington junior high classroom into a television studio and its students into props,” railed the Washington Post. Education Secretary Lamar Alexander was called before a House committee. The National Education Association denounced Bush. And Congress ordered the General Accounting Office to investigate.
Obama’s actual speech proved about as controversial as a Nancy Reagan appeal to eighth-graders to “Just say no!” to drugs.
Yet, the episode reveals the poisoned character of our politics.
We saw it earlier on display in August, when the crowds that came out for town hall meetings to oppose Obama’s health-care plans were called “thugs,” “fascists,” “racists” and “evil-mongers” by national Democrats.
We see it as Rep. Joe Wilson shouts, “You lie!” at the president during his address to a joint session of Congress.
“You Lie!” Get the bumper sticker that immortalizes American opposition to Obama
We seem not only to disagree with each other more than ever, but to have come almost to detest one another. Politically, culturally, racially, we seem ever ready to go for each others’ throats.
One half of America sees abortion as the annual slaughter of a million unborn. The other half regards the right-to-life movement as tyrannical and sexist.
Proponents of gay marriage see its adversaries as homophobic bigots. Opponents see its champions as seeking to elevate unnatural and immoral relationships to the sacred state of traditional marriage.
The question invites itself. In what sense are we one nation and one people anymore? For what is a nation if not a people of a common ancestry, faith, culture and language, who worship the same God, revere the same heroes, cherish the same history, celebrate the same holidays and share the same music, poetry, art and literature?
Yet, today, Mexican-Americans celebrate Cinco de Mayo, a skirmish in a French-Mexican war about which most Americans know nothing, which took place the same year as two of the bloodiest battles of our own Civil War: Antietam and Fredericksburg.
Christmas and Easter, the great holidays of Christendom, once united Americans in joy. Now we fight over whether they should even be mentioned, let alone celebrated, in our public schools.
Where we used to have classical, pop, country & Western and jazz music, now we have varieties tailored to specific generations, races and ethnic groups. Even our music seems designed to subdivide us.
(Column continues below)
One part of America loves her history, another reviles it as racist, imperialist and genocidal. Old heroes like Columbus, Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee are replaced by Dr. King and Cesar Chavez.
But the old holidays, heroes and icons endure, as the new have yet to put down roots in a recalcitrant Middle America.
We are not only more divided than ever on politics, faith and morality, but along the lines of class and ethnicity. Those who opposed Sonia Sotomayor for the Supreme Court and stood by Sgt. Crowley in the face-off with Harvard’s Henry Louis Gates were called racists. But this time they did not back down. They threw the same vile word right back in the face of their accusers, and Barack Obama.
Consider but a few issues on which Americans have lately been bitterly divided: school prayer, the Ten Commandments, evolution, the death penalty, abortion, homosexuality, assisted suicide, affirmative action, busing, the Confederate battle flag, the Duke rape case, Terri Schiavo, Iraq, amnesty, torture.
Now it is death panels, global warming, “birthers” and socialism. If a married couple disagreed as broadly and deeply as Americans do on such basic issues, they would have divorced and gone their separate ways long ago. What is it that still holds us together?
The European-Christian core of the country that once defined us is shrinking, as Christianity fades, the birth rate falls and Third World immigration surges. Globalism dissolves the economic bonds, while the cacophony of multiculturalism displaces the old American culture.
“E pluribus unum” – out of many, one – was the national motto the men of ’76 settled upon. One sees the pluribus. But where is the unum? One sees the diversity. But where is the unity?
Pat Buchanan was twice a candidate for the Republican presidential nomination and the Reform Party’s candidate in 2000. He is also a founder and editor of The American Conservative. Now a political analyst for MSNBC and a syndicated columnist, he served three presidents in the White House, was a founding panelist of three national TV shows, and is the author of seven books.
I was long out of school and well-ensconced in a career when Dick Cheney masterminded the 911 attacks. From the beginning I suspected Israel.
I have not changed much. (The career has gone kablooey, just like many other folks’ careers, but I survive.) Then again was much, much older than Prozium when the attacks happened. My views were pretty much set by that point.
Then again, Ruby Ridge was my radicalizing moment. That was back in the 1990s.
“I was long out of school and well-ensconced in a career when Dick Cheney masterminded the 911 attacks. From the beginning I suspected Israel.”
Your suspicions were/are dead on.
” In short, I crave bloodshed. I desire war. I want to see the blood of Marxists, Jews, negroes, Hispanics, and White traitors, flow in the streets. I’m still fairly young, and, the way things are going, I may get my wish. God willing. ”
The way things are going Thomas W. Chittums prophesied ‘Civil War 2’ is a likely outcome. Chances are though that violent negro of hispanic gangs will pop off the eventual ‘Helter Skelter’, especially if O-bage (Obama combined with Mugabe!) continues to lose power and poll ratings…
Warfare appears to me to be where ‘the rubber meets the road’.
Lets take a look at the recent O’meara essay on Junger and Jungers view on such matters:
” Between two civilized peoples, war (whose cruelty and absurdity Jünger never ceased to emphasize) tended to exalt, test, and extenuate a people’s values. As such, he saw it as the supreme spiritual experience, as clashing “psychic powers” engaged and tested themselves against one another. His was not the typical nationalistic, imperialistic, or militaristic apology for war, but an affirmation of raw life free from the “human, all too human” (Nietzsche) world centered on bourgeois optimism and its denial of death and destruction.”
An outsider’s view: 911 changed very little for me. I disliked and distrusted muslims ever since I learned about Islam’s spread throughout the ‘dark ages’ when I was nine or ten. I wasn’t surprised in the least by the attacks; I simply hoped they would alert more people to the true nature of muslims. I knew ‘race matters’ from the very youngest but believed the sorts of tensions it causes can be mitigated. The first really eye-opening ‘racial event’ I experienced was Michael Dukakis’s presidential bid: I was still a kid and I remember thinking he’s not American, he’s Greek, how come no one says anything? Something was very awry, I decided. Holocaust “inconsistencies” are what radicalized me. When I realized most of what I’d been taught about the war and the atrocities was either exaggerated or untrue I began to question everything else and discovered most of that is some form of deceit and manipulation too. Even though I am supremely turned off by nutzi-level racial loathing I believe in truth , justice and fairness, and being forced to a live a lie is insufferable. The final straw was realizing what ongoing racial interbreeding would lead to: extinction of the kinds of people I like best and care about most (eg, I’ve already lost one cousin to a negro and two to asians), and a mixed up, confused, incoherent, degraded, degenerate ‘civilization,’ both grand disasters and both worth tolerating the upheaval required to avert them. (There’s also the promise of eugenics, of which I’m an avid and outspoken supporter, though I don’t classify that as ‘radical.’)
I’m going to get back to this but I’d like to go on record stating that I was actually on a roving watch on a U.S. naval base as an E-3 when 9-11 happened.
I went from having an open base with lax security to threat condition whatever. I didn’t recover from that, despite being sent to the brig for what in reality was a trifling offense, until I started listening to Noam Choamsky, Amy Goodman and the “anti-Semitic” left.
I have to admit I actually owe my awakening, since I was primed by them to receive the facts I did working in Oakland, to the Jewish lefties we spend so much time talking shit about.
Also, the “truther” movement enabled me to let go of any prejudices I had about our government and evaluate things critically.
I believe Mossad played a large role in the attacks and this increased my “anti-Semitism” to a fever pitch for a time.
“In short, I crave bloodshed. I desire war. I want to see the blood of Marxists, Jews, negroes, Hispanics, and White traitors, flow in the streets.”
I can’t say this is explicitly desireable. But it is a necessary evil, becoming increasingly necessary and increasingly evil the more it is put off.
“I went from having an open base with lax security to threat condition whatever. I didn’t recover from that, despite being sent to the brig for what in reality was a trifling offense,”
Eh? What? Did they just suddenly decide to crack down on any and every minor infraction they could find out of fear or something?
I think 9/11 will be remembered as heralding the end of the European Era, much as the election of Barack Obama marks the end of the American Project within that era. Buchanan has it right. America is now a house irrevocably divided. The coming civil war will not be to re-unite the union but to divide it.
Fwiw, I thought this was particularly trenchant by Pat:
He has been all over this impending disaster since long before he even wrote ‘Death of the West’.
” He has been all over this impending disaster since long before he even wrote ‘Death of the West’.”
Yes and Pat does deserve credit for that, however one can also at the same time appreciate the vision that Oswald Spengler had in his work on the ‘Colored World Revolution’
In short, I crave bloodshed. I desire war. I want to see the blood of Marxists, Jews, negroes, Hispanics, and White traitors, flow in the streets. I’m still fairly young, and, the way things are going, I may get my wish. God willing.
Perhaps there is another Hal Turner in our midst…
I haven’t really changed much at all, I’ve just gotten a little more knowledgeable and mature (just a little). It seems to me that the entire country has moved way left, especially in the last 5 years, yet I have stayed in the same spot politically — I am where most conservatives were in the 1950’s, and they are all liberals/commies now. The radical libs of the sixties have grown worse, if that’s possible.
The tea protesters don’t give me any hope. They have only recently been animated by their own personal financial troubles. They are radically individualized, little more than ICU’s (individual consumer units), out for themselves. They are immune to facts and have no courage and no sense of proportion. They still follow false leaders like Beck, Limbaugh, Savage, et al., and have learned little from this latest bankster coup. Give them a financial bone and they’ll roll over and play dead again.
Real change will not come from the people, Leute sind dumme Gans. Real change will come from a leader who knows how to work the people’s nature for his own advantage.
FYI – War Eagle. I was a freshman at Auburn when 9/11 occurred. Send me an email when you get the change Prozium.
Absolutely right, VanSpeyk, that should have read to the extent that more non-whites (not NAMs… Doh!) entered the country in significant numbers, America became less America to me
Prozium, you should tell your readers what will be done with mongrels or those racially mixed in a White republic. This vexing question needs to be addressed in America as so many people are of mixed extraction. The larger question becomes: who is White? If one is 1/4 American indian, is one White? Is it a case by case type of thing? Today’s genetic testing can give very precise information about one’s background. Should a White republic have a racial elite, like the S.S., of whom more is required? This difficult question needs to be addressed.
Given our militant pro-Israel foreign policy the 9/11 attacks didn’t exactly catch me flat footed. Nor, did I become a stark, raving patriotard in the aftermath of the attack as many Americans. Although I never could have predicted the attacks, neither was I surprised by them, and there is much circumstantial evidence to implicate elements of Israeli intelligence and Jews serving in the U.S. financial and business sector in having foreknowledge of the attacks.
If anything I’ve lost all vestiges of respect for the ruling D.C. junta as well as many of my countrymen. As William Pierce routinely observed, most white Americans are fair weather fans, and they’ll ardently support any popular ideology or politician no matter how destructive it is to their own race. In short they’re lemmings and a case in point was their enthusiasm in wrecking a blameless Iraq for 9/11 and of the 45% who voted for Barack Obongo.
The cultural mores of the old, white America still live on in some quarters throughout the U.S. but otherwise the spirit of 1776 is dead and been supplanted by consumerism, anti-racism and multiculturalism. Contemporary Americans are arguably more degraded than the Roman mobs of the coliseum.
Prozium is correct; we live under a hated, alien regime. I’ll add that EVERY action of “our” government is inimical to white racial survival.
I don’t really see what patriotism (loyalty to the federal government) has to do with reactions to towelheads blowing up a bunch of Americans. They didn’t blow up the government, they blew up American people. Islam has been hostile to the West since long before America and its government existed, and even if WNs took power tomorrow we’d still have a rocky relationship with the Islamic world. Maybe less so if we didn’t support Israel, but again tensions with Islam predate Israel’s existence.
The “war on terror”, hyped as a “clash of civilizations”, is self-evidently a joke. Why? Because Whites have it within their power to exterminate all Muslims outright. And if the threat they pose to us were as great as alleged our response would be closer to the above instead the limp-wristed occupations of two Muslim countries we are pursuing now. So what is the game? You guessed it, IsraHell’s territorial expansion and regional hegemony. And of course be of aware just which group would be screaming the loudest if all Muslims were expelled from Western countries: the Jooos.
The 9/11 attacks would not have occurred without our one-sided foreign policy in favor of Israel. Our actions since the creation of Israel provided the impetus for Muslim radicals to launch an attack. Osama Bin Laden is on record as stating U.S. foreign policy is killing Muslims. Our policy should be one of strict neutrality but concerning the middle east it’s one of Israel coddling.
The religion of Islam is totally incompatible with Western Civilization. The behavior of most Muslims and their Imans in England, Europe and Australia hasn’t endeared me to them. Muslims should be encouraged to emigrate out of the West and if necessary, expelled. They have a right to be secure from naked aggression in their own lands, but not to crash the gates of ours, thumb their noses at our society, proselytize and build mosques and relegate us to the status of dhimmi.
“Perhaps there is another Hal Turner in our midst…”
WTF does that mean?
I thought it was finally payback time for Lee Greenwood’s USA watching 911 unfold on morning TV which I never turned on before dark. I’d fallen asleep with the radio on and when I awoke they were talking about the WTC in NYC so I turned my set on to see what the fuss was all about. Aaron Brown had been an anchor on local television for years before he moved on and I couldn’t stand him even then. He’d had an early heart attack and while everyone in town was praying for him to pull through I secretly cursed God that the was still alive. And there he was on that morning giving this spectacular series of events the unctious Aaron Brown treatment while planes careened into buildings and they collapsed behind him. Like the rest of the nation, I thought we were under attack. It wasn’t long afterwards that I realized we’d been given the gift of a national siege mentality when Benjamin Netanyahu, curiously on hand in NYC that morning, announced, ‘We are all Israelis now.” I’m a cynical, bitter, full on conspiracy theorist and I just don’t see how 19 Muslim fanatics with box cutters, on orders from a diabolically clever viillain in a remote cave, could take out three NYC skyscrapers and drive a train tunnel sized hole through the pentagon in one day. Larry Silverstein paid something like 200 million to lease those properties from the New York Port Authority two weeks before they were demolished. His insurance settlement looks to be around 4.6 billion now. What sort of crazy capers do these super rich sewer snoids have planned for us next?!
” His insurance settlement looks to be around 4.6 billion now. ”
It is not called ‘Jewish lightning’ for nothing!
Alaric scribbled: “Perhaps there is another Hal Turner in our midst…”
Hey Alaric, douchebag, WTF is that supposed to mean? For the 2nd time…
He’s referring to what you wrote above:
“In short, I crave bloodshed. I desire war. I want to see the blood of Marxists, Jews, negroes, Hispanics, and White traitors, flow in the streets. I’m still fairly young, and, the way things are going, I may get my wish. God willing.”
It’s still not apparent why he would bring up FBI informant Hal Turner, from what I wrote.