Amurrica Series: Chuck’s Proposition Nation

April 30, 2012 Hunter Wallace American South, Amurrica, Anti-Racism, Anti-White, BRA Race Relations, BRA Racial Etiquette, Conservatism, Diversity, Dixie, Humor, Kansas, Negroes, Neocons, Race Realism, Race Relations, Racism, Southern Nationalism, White Nationalism, Whiteness 85

Kansas

I’ve been following the “Citizenism vs. WN” debate on Chuck Rudd’s website although it seems that like others I am barred from participating.

My honest response to “citizenism” is just incredulous laughter: if you value your citizenship as a degraded and humiliated class of tax slaves in BRA, that’s your prerogative, but no one else is under any compulsion to view their American citizenship as anything but a worthless burden.

For the record, I am not a White Nationalist. If we have learned anything from the terminal decline of the United States, it is that the original and fatal mistake was corralling such disparate ethnic groups as Southerners, Yankees, various European immigrants, and revolutionary Jews together under the “White” category in the Union.

Personally, my own ideal is a “White ethnostate” called the “Republic of Dixie.” I’m convinced that White Southerners need our own nation-state to realize the racialist and conservative impulses of our own culture.

The alternative to a separate Southern nation-state is submersion among the teeming, half barbarized Third World “citizens” of Chuck’s Proposition Nation and allegiance to their despotism in Washington. That’s not a prospect that I find inviting.

Note: BTW, Dixie wasn’t founded on the basis of any absurd “proposition.” Boston was the “City of Notions.” My ancestors never landed on Plymouth Rock and they didn’t come here to create any “City on a Hill.” We are descended from the best blood of Virginians and Carolinians.


About Hunter Wallace 12392 Articles
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50 Comments

  1. Disagree.

    It is ALL or nothing.

    I AM a White Nationalist…which means much more than the usual fare developed in the virtual world; conversely, the added weight of disparate ideologies can work for us, if this is tried in the fires of a comprehensive WN’st platform, as it was always intended.

    Southron pride is no excuse for a National ethos, no matter the tug of one’s heart.

  2. The obvious problem with “White Nationalism” is the tendency of Jews and certain types of Whites to combine with blacks and to promote Hispanic immigration to inudate the South with enough Mexicans and black voters to control the national government.

  3. I have in mind particularly that class of venomous Whites (not everyone who lives there, but we all know who they are) who live in the Northeast, the Upper Midwest, and the Left Coast.

  4. Let it be said that some of my best friends live in those areas: the Left Coast, the Upper Midwest, and the Northeast. There are plenty of people who “can see” (clearly, too) in those areas. I’m not referring to them here.

    I’m referring to that cancerous class of Whites who can tune into “Up With Chris Hayes” and “Hardball with Chris Matthews” and “The Rachel Maddow Show” and find themselves nodding in agreement.

    I want to permanently separate from those people.

  5. A regional identity essentially. American populations may have exist/coexisted
    in better shape had this Confederacy thing not been defeated.

    You may even need to go back to the war of independence and the decision to side with the City of Notions.

  6. Further thoughts:

    [Chuck: As mentioned above, it gets down to tactics. The difficult thing here is that the areas of the country that are most prone to this WN bent are the ones that are most highly populated with non-whites. Thus the desire to separate. So how’s that going to work out?

    In 1912, 90 percent of blacks lived in the South. In 2012, 54 percent of blacks live in the South. How did the Jim Crow laws work out? Blacks were pushed out of the segregated South, pulled toward the integrated North, thus creating a White majority in Florida, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina.

    Or will the whites set up shop in another lily-white area and then fight for independence there? If so, will they truly be motivated? I wonder how high is your bar for this potential political will to separate.

    Is Chuck just unaware that the bloodiest war in American history was fought over this issue?

    If a small group just declares that they want to separate from the U.S. should they be allowed to do it? It must, then, come down to the use of physical force.

    How come? Does Britain intend to use force to block Scottish independence? Does Canada intend to use force to coerce Quebec?

    Ryu’s “might makes right” principle. The term I’ve been using so far is “aesthetic principle.” There’s probably a better term for it, but I intend it to mean a separation based upon a desire to not be around people with black skin.

    The proper term is ethnonationalism or the identification of the state with the nation. Blacks are defined as racial aliens not belonging to the nation.

    This is a non-political issue even though we are talking about a redrawing of political lines. The founding of such a nation will be unique. It will be the first nation whose core principle is the color of its constituents.

    Both the United States and the Confederacy were based on whiteness. Blacks were not granted citizenship until the 14th Amendment was passed during Reconstruction.

    All of the rules and laws follow from that starting point. If we’re talking about arbitrariness then that sounds pretty arbitrary to me.

    Well, I suppose America was pretty “arbitrary” then from 1789 through 1868, and “quasi-arbitrary” from 1877 until 1965.

    [Chuck: Whites do have an obligation to share *this* country. You can’t escape that fact. If whites want to set up another country and enforce those laws, then they can try.]

    Says who?

  7. I got booted from Little Chuckie’s Piggy site cause I told of a noxious “LaTEENa”. I ought to have saved the comment. I remember the gist, though – I’ll post that later.

    Chuckie grew infuriated. Chuckie would still rather grovel to his Pet Darkies, no matter how vain, clueless, or donwright STUPID, than reactivate his BALLS and make the hard choices.

  8. [Chuck: I guess you’re right if we’re now talking about a group of white people branching off and forming their own nation-state. I don’t see how that would actually be successful and independent of the U.S. Such a nation will require trade, and it will require trade with the U.S.

    Even at the height of the War Between the States, trade continued between the South, the North, and Western Europe. Normal trade relations would have resumed if the South had won its independence too.

    This will diversify the nation to some extent. Also, unless you care to run a heavy propaganda state, the children will eventually liberalize.

    This assumes that liberalization is a natural process rather something that has been unnaturally forced upon the South. Does anyone believe that the South would have abolished Jim Crow on its own initiative? Flung open the borders?

    I haven’t thought that deeply about what such a nation would look like (and WN is ultimately nothing if nationhood is not its end-goal), but I seriously doubt whether any of the people who say they want one would actually like to live there. I have a hard time believing that some of the independent thinkers that visit this blog would actually fall in line with that. Would you, Kyle?]

    If Dixie became independent of the United States, beleaguered Whites from other parts of the country would be beating down our door trying to get in here, and the blacks and the liberals would be moving north, and the Mexicans would be fleeing south.

  9. What I’m suggesting by the slavery thing – and I had assumed that this is a commonly-understood argument – is that we are forced to live in a society that doesn’t give us much room for White Nationalism insofar as that requires an all-white nation from the get-go.

    This is a straw man.

    “White Nationalism” doesn’t necessarily require “an all-white nation from the get-go.” Racial separation could easily unfold in a series of stages. Apartheid was a type of White Nationalism that gradually stripped blacks of their South African citizenship.

  10. “White” and “nationalist” are two disconsant terms, at least here in America. We were not homogenous from the start.

    From the start, U.S. citizenship was based on whiteness. See the Dred Scott decision. Blacks were citizens of five New England states. Their citizenship was never recognized though under the Constitution by the other states.

    White people entered a land occupied by brown people and we brought even darker people over here to employ as cheap labor. So we can deal with the immigraiton issue and keep the southern border closed (in theory), but we don’t have much room to fully adhere to that “white” part of the WN term because of our actions centuries ago.

    If the South won its independence and white supremacy was reestablished in Dixie, then blacks and other undesirable elements would voluntarily emigrate, thereby whitening Dixie in the same way that happened in the Jim Crow era.

    So you have grounds to be a nationalist, and you certainly have grounds to be white, but your argument falls apart when you try to combine both terms to use as a political tool here in the United States.

    No, it doesn’t.

    Historically speaking, citizenship was restricted to Whites and political rights (i.e., the right to vote) was restricted to White males. America was a “White Man’s Country” for decades. Non-Whites were excluded from immigrating here in order to preserve the “White Man’s Country.”

  11. As I’ve said several times, the major fault line is the black-white issue. And that’s just something that white Americans have to deal with. Whites brought blacks here against their will. It’s a tough shit kind of thing.

    White Americans have dealt with the issue in different ways though: one way of dealing with the issue was through secession and creation of an independent nation-state to preserve slavery and white supremacy.

  12. Chuck, and most of the Commentors – not all – but MOST – need ot be FORCED to lice in Darkie world, 24/7. For minimum a month. Not permitted to hide out in a gated community – but be forced to deal with Orcs and Niggers 24/7. In person. 24/7.

  14. The first time I saw it was around the time that I realized that “I am not an American” or “I don’t want to be an American.” There is a conflict between my own cultural identity and being an “American” in that sense.

  15. The future political organisation in the area currently known as the United States may go several ways ranging from increasing centralisation to increasing decentralisation. But one thing is certain the current political dispensation can not last. The empire is bankrupt and can no longer afford the welfare warfare state. The warfare state is maintaining the financial structure at least in the short term by forcing the USD as the reserve currency via pricing/selling oil in dollars. But ultimately this is unsustainable in that the domestic economy can’t afford the taxes it requires and the market for US debt is declining. Last I heard the FED is buying over 60% of US debt.

    In addition to the warfare state political control is also maintained through the welfare state. Nearly every constituency of importance is vested and dependent on the DC is some manner. Again as with the warfare state the welfare state is currently a short term game that long term results in greater instability later. The empire’s debt is in excess of GDP and the future obligations of the empire exceed the GDP by approximately an order of magnitude.

    What the Establishment is attempting to put in place is the NAU. However in my opinion time has run out for this option. There is no support for this in any of the three countries nor will the Amero prove viable as shown by the Euro and also by that point oil will be priced in something else, perhaps gold or the Chinese Yuan. The only thing that could put the NAU in place is a police state. But a police state is extraordinarily expensive in two ways. First is the obvious expense but more importantly is the economic inefficiency resulting from a police state. Central planning doesn’t work.

    The obvious question is why wouldn’t the US simply limp along as a second rate country? There are two reasons. First as elections for decades have shown is that there is a geographic and racial divergence in the ‘American’ electorate. The differences are mediated through buying off sufficient portions of the electorate. The empire will no longer be able to do this. The welfare state will be coming to an end by new austerity measures. Public disorder will decline through increased negro crime, rioting and looting. Secondly is that the US is a ‘Propositional Nation’. The collapse of the empire will cause widespread disillusionment. DC will become increasing non-functional and the states will have to step in to keep order. We are already seeing some movement to nullification on several issues.

    Increased public disorder will cause a hardening and radicalisation of racial identity and politics. This will eventually cause a feedback loop. The political interests aligned with BRA will become increasing anti-white and anti-Southern. It will become so because blacks are disproportionately in the South. This will create pressure for secession.

  16. As Hunter has said a South without a welfare state and one that respects freedom of association will cause many negros to emigrate to the Northern states or to the West Coast. But more can be done to encourage negro emigration. Negros could receive a one time payment to emigrate or to accept sterilisation. Any convicted felon can be stripped of citizenship and expelled. I’m sure other methods could be devised. But I could foresee that within a generation or two the South could be free of Negros. The most important thing would be to encourage white children. More white Southerners means less room for negros and less opportunity for employment.

    But this will be possible only when the negro has been disenfranchised by restricting the franchise to those with a certain level of education or by weighing the franchise. Obviously the bar to convicted felons remaining in place will remain.

  18. We’re not proposing something radical … just the revival and fulfillment of an ideal that is actually quite old.

    The context of the Union systematically warps and distorts our culture and forces it to evolve in directions that most people here find reprehensible. It will never stop either until the Union is dissolved.

  20. As White & Confederate explains above, maintaining the status quo effectively means the enslavement of the South to BRA’s unsustainable national debt. It means enslavement to foolish ideas about race that are destroying our cities.

  21. The only thing that is going to remove the niggers from this country, any part of it, is deadly force wielded with deadly purpose. Circumstance today are not as they were in the Jim Crow South, and white people today simply do not, and will not, conceptualize eventual goals in terms of generations.

    I also have to agree with Faustus in that it’s “all or nothing”, with regards to white racial dominance over American soil. There are white people in every corner of this country, all with centuries-old presence & claim to what they call home. No one region should be expected to be the dumping-ground for another’s niggers. And given the misery of the last 50 years, I can’t see any region, not even “Yankeeland”, voluntarily accepting waves displaced niggers, in the event of a future dissolution of the USA and subsequent expulsion from the South, for example.

    I see at least 6 possible, separate entities emerging from the eventual breakup of the USA:

    1.) ‘American Republic’ – Stretching from New England across the upper Midwest to the Dakota’s.

    2.) ‘Dixie Republic’ – The old Confederate states, and possibly Kentucky.

    3.) ‘Lone Star Republic’ – Texas, Oklahoma, some of the Great Plains and Colorado.

    4.) ‘California Republic’ – California, Arizona & Nevada.

    5.) ‘Cascadia Republic’ – The Pacific Northwest, Wyoming & Montana.

    6.) ‘Alaska Republic’ – The state of Alaska.

  22. Whatever rot may have accumulated among whites in the present age, and there is much, the coming collapse of the financial system will provide the necessary catalyst for a resurrection of Dixie, by which I mean a free and independent South, the realization of our thwarted destiny as white men of the South.

    The destiny of the SWPL, transplanted “Yankees” among us in the coming years, is not an eviable one. As for the negroes, we shall soon witness their overplaying their hand once again. This will bring along the remainder of “those who will ever see.” Piss on the rest…

    When the government checks become worthless, the future radical decentalization (implosion) of the Yankee empire and BRA dies right on the spot. Most probably with some significant amount of violence. When you get down to it, we whites do violent the best of all. Once we realize that again, it’s game over for the current misrule.

    Be ready.

    Deo Vindice

  23. Denise says: I got booted from Little Chuckie’s Piggy site cause I ……

    I voluntarily quit visiting after he started writing at TheGoodMenProject, I told him Whoremaster would have had a field day on the post and he kept wanting to know why, so I emailed him it, and Chuck didn’t like my criticism. Chuck is in some kind of lala land, he doesn’t seem to know what values he holds. You can’t play on both teams and be the referee.

    White & Confederate says: The welfare state will be coming to an end by new austerity measures. Public disorder will decline through increased negro crime, rioting and looting.

    Egypt and Greece etc will look like child’s play when the American nigger gets short changed by the welfare department. Bad thing now is they aren’t in projects anymore, they’re neighbors thanks to Sec. 8. If there were real videos of the MLK riots most people would think differently of them. People are just starting to learn what they are like now that everybody has a cell phone with a vid cam, and they are not like they have been told. They destroyed square miles of cities. They should have been shot on site then. The media has protected these vile creatures for too long, but they can’t protect them with the advent of WorldStarHipHop’s and other vid posting sites.

    313Chris, West Virginia will join Dixie this time.

    The easiest way to start getting rid of a bunch of them is have a shitty welfare system. They will move. They don’t want to work and assimilate. Get rid of union protection so they can be fired and most will be gone in a few more years (postal carriers in Chicago have to scan a UPC at businesses to prove they do their route …. how bad do you think it got that the USPS had to resort to this?). Get rid of the payroll deduction by employers for union dues (its not their job to collect union dues in the first place). niggers don’t pay their bills and they won’t pay voluntary union dues – the unions will probably try to carry them at first but the whites will get fed up after a while. A state that really wanted to get rid of them would not have that hard of a time, really. There are only a couple things that need to be done, and they will go someplace else. After the last 40+ years of being coddled, Jim Crow won’t even have to be extreme.

  24. All ideology is bunk, it comes and it goes, same with national socialism that too many people worship. Ideology is fine if one knows its limitations and what eventually happens with it, but for now it is basically a jew tool to destroy nations even if some of its application in service of a nation (NS lite) are applicable.

  25. rjp you have to look at the class as half-full. The section 8 housing in white communities are cut off from their reinforcements.

  26. Having been born and raised in NJ I can tell you that the working class whites among whom I was raised including my relatives were instinctively deeply separatist. I do not suggest they cogitated about something as cerebral and abstruse as ethno-state engineering but rather it was simply a natural and instinctive cast of mind.

    Separation in some form is not only the only guarantee of white hegemony (in this instance it would be absolute of course) but it is increasingly becoming a matter of pathos among many whites who are exhausted and sickened by black (and all non-white) pathologies that they can plainly see has turned this nation into a cultural marxist hell-hole antipodal to what they had known in THEIR OWN lifetimes.

    Hunter, I hope you can see that although I hail from the North and show some cultural traits therefrom and you alternatively from the South that we are fundamentally identifiable by race, religion, and essential world-view. I assume you would agree with this but your strong seemingly exclusive Southern identification may preclude a blithe assumption on this.

  27. @rjp

    Yeah, I forgot that one. My projection is by no means exact, but just a rough estimate based on voting patterns, ethnic concentrations, issues in common among states in close proximity, and historical identities. There could very easily be other nation-state, or even city-states that emerge. There might also be large swaths of ungoverned territory in different places — “no man’s lands”. And I imagine all of this in stages, but swift, tumultuous stages. It’ll be a wild time.

    Also, it’s very likely that portions of existing states, especially those along territoral borders will be divided up along the allegiances of the those who form the majorities therein.

  28. what does the state do for you? Train and coddle your replacements. And you foot the bill.

    The invasion of the body snatchers is quite appropo here.

  29. I’ve been keeping the regional issue front and center for a reason.

    The problem with WN is that a separate White ethnostate is proposed as the ideal, but there is no consensus as to where the ethnostate is to be located, how it is to be realized, or what ethnicity is to be the basis of the proposed ethnostate.

    WN is a stripped down version of Confederate nationalism. The South used to be the epicenter of America’s racial problems and separatist tendencies. In 2012, the Northeast, the Midwest, and tbe West are a lot more like the Deep South in their racial demographics, whereas states like Arkansas, Alabama, and Tennessee have hardly changed.

    Southern ideas about race and separatism are proliferating again in the North and West. The type of rhetoric that you used to find here now strikes a chord from Connecticut to California.

    Ironically, WN has weakened our ability to foment separatism in any particular region while blunting any call for a revival of white supremacy that might be a more sensible response.

  30. Chris313 – Ohio has better welfare than Kentucky and West Virginia. That’s where my whole theory of how to rid your state of them is derived from. Look at the difference in demographics between Cincinnati, OH, and Covington, KY. Do the same with Weirton, WV, and Steubenville, OH.

  32. As I said under the moniker of “Anonymoose” over at Chuck’s, this nonsense of “citizenism” is just slavery to an abstraction. Slavery to abstractions is a major contributor to why whites are allowing themselves to be displaced by non-whites. Nonsense talk of “freedom,” “fairness,” “consistency” won’t save you from a gang of marauding negroes.

  34. Wow, reading the above link, if that really what it is, was a wild ride.

    Hunter, I have said before, I see why you do not like the term ‘wn’, or what it seems to signify; as usually, your instincts are sound, but I would still encourage you to see ‘beyond’ these posers and players.

    I have read this twice now, http://www.amazon.com/Foundations-The-Twenty-First-Century/dp/1463562217/ref=lp_B002MG6O0A_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1335831672&sr=1-2 , and really see what this man is talking about. And it is a far cry from what was being said on Chuck’s thing.

  35. Borges. He might not approve of the context but…

    A map is not the territory. Or vice versa.

    WN is not a territory. Indeed it is only a fragment of a map. The Confederacy is a territory.

  37. NO state is going to have much better welfare benefits than any other once the spigot of federal dollars is shut off. The condition of government will initially revert to something along the lines of nationhood as it was under the Articles of Confederation if not that of those of individual sovereign territories.

    Any banding together of local confederacies will result more from common economic interests than anything else. I can see such natural constituencies as the corn and wheat belts banding together with rural counties in the South all the way down to New Orleans in order to keep the Mississippi River secure and navigable for commerce.

    There would be little incentive for the white coal mining areas of Appalachia to remain in political union with places already overrun with hordes of Negroes like the Mississippi Delta or Georgia. I seriously doubt if huge and geographically incompatible places like Tennessee or California would continue as contiguous political entities.

    Corporate police forces, sheriff department volunteer deputy infantry, and in some cases state militias and National Guard units would be the forces of order along with local courts.

    One sure sweet and ironic thing is that Washington D.C. would end up a burned out hulk much like modern Detroit.

  38. Chuck, and most of the Commentors – not all – but MOST – need ot be FORCED to lice in Darkie world, 24/7. For minimum a month. Not permitted to hide out in a gated community – but be forced to deal with Orcs and Niggers 24/7. In person. 24/7.

    Sounds like the old Scared Straight program:

  39. The paradox of WN is that a “White ethnostate” is proposed as the solution, but because WNs want to include everyone, they cannot decide on where to launch their separatist project.

    If the goal is to save the entire country, then a “White ethnostate” is non-starter, at least in the short term. Saving the entire country by working across regional lines would require the restoration of white supremacy.

    Yet WNs condemn white supremacy in the name of the ethnostate.

  40. Here’s the sequence that I envision:

    (1) Secession has to come first.

    (2) White supremacy has to come second.

    (3) The ethnostate has to come third.

    I can see an independent Dixie where white supremacy has been restored evolving into something like apartheid in South Africa. Blacks would be stripped of their citizenship. They would be restricted to smaller homelands and excluded from White controlled zones.

    As time goes on, the White zones would expand, gradually pushing blacks out of Dixie altogether.

  42. “I’m referring to that cancerous class of Whites who can tune into “Up With Chris Hayes” and “Hardball with Chris Matthews” and “The Rachel Maddow Show” and find themselves nodding in agreement.”

    Also known around my place as “The In-laws”.

  43. I scanned Rudd’s thread. If there is a significant difference between the typical HBD commenter who admires Steve Sailer and the typical DWL, I’m not sure what that might be. Most HBD people go against the grain on race realism. Otherwise, they are conformists who don’t venture very far from the standard positions taken by DWLs. In fact, much of anti-WNist commentary in the HBD community reads like something off of Hate Watch. Rudd, for example, made the comment in that thread that American was never homogenous because White people took over land from Brown people. Good Lord. Can I roll my eyes now?

  44. “Negros could receive a one time payment to emigrate or to accept sterilisation. Any convicted felon can be stripped of citizenship and expelled. ”

    Finally, someone gets the entire PROCREATIVE WEAPON that non-White fecundicity leads to!

    In Ancient Israel, the inability to procreate was an effective death sentence, without the bloodshed, or murder. Today, such a procedure is more than humane, but it WOULD restore a proper balance. Women who voluntarily commit abortion are like whores/murderers, anyway- abortion as a medical procedure should be a capital offense… Except in cases of rape or the health of the mother; but even there, advances in science have now been able to keep preemies alive, and to determine DNA in utero.

    http://thewhitechrist.wordpress.com/2010/07/27/singing-to-one’s-own-damnation/

    But to rid the land of the ‘xenos’ via such humane but biblical means? Excellent idea, no matter who says it’s ‘nazi’ or ‘evil.’ Because God is the supreme Eugenicist- or have you not heard of the Chosen People?

    http://thewhitechrist.wordpress.com/2011/09/22/the-eugenics-of-god/

    White and Confed, very good thinking. Bravo.

  46. The Greek city-states operated as loose confederacy of independent states, each of which catered to the particular needs and culture of those from that region. Do you really think iron miners from Minnesota and plantation owners from Alabama have a lot in common?

    A man needs a soil to call his own. No idea calls like the hills of home. (Or mountains, or whatever)

  47. It is a type of White Nationalism.

    Confederate nationalism was White Southern Nationalism. Rather than advocating something that sounds radical and unfamiliar, it makes more sense to build upon a preexisting foundation that millions of people already identity with.

    I’ve woven my version of White Nationalism into the culture and history of the South.

  48. What was the first revolutionary pro-White organization in American history? It was the Klan followed by the White League, White Line, Regulators, and the Red Shirts. These were armed paramilitary groups formed by ex-Confederate soldiers.

  49. I will write a book about this one day … how Confederate nationalism evolved after the defeat of the Confederacy, how ex-Confederates formed the first revolutionary pro-White groups, how “white separatism” was embraced in the Lower South after the demise of slavery.

    John Tyler Morgan and Theodore Bilbo spent decades advocating white separatism and the removal of the negro to Africa. Bilbo was a key figure in the evolution of white supremacy into white separatism.

  50. My guess is, eastern West Va would go Southron; western West Va, the part smashed up against Ohio would want to stay yankee

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