Ethnonationalism vs. Eurasianism


I’ve followed this exchange at Counter-Currents and Radix Journal.

I’m left wondering: how would “ethnonationalism,” as Greg Johnson construes it, be applied to the United States? Specifically, would this entail a future White ethnostate renouncing its claim to, say, the Mississippi Delta, Florida, or California on the grounds of the large non-White population that exists there?

In the South, should we fall back to the pristine whiteness of West Virginia? Is this really possible? Could a White ethnostate in the Heartland allow a weak “black ethnostate,” an American version of Haiti, to control the Mississippi Delta? Would a White ethnostate really alienate its own coastline and allow it to become a geopolitical playground for foreign intrigue to satisfy a universal abstract argument?

Are there any coastal cities in the United States which lack a large non-White population? Seattle is 66.3 percent White. San Francisco is 48 percent White. Los Angeles is 28.7 percent White. Are White Nationalists just going to give up those cities? Would White Nationalists act any differently than Putin has in Crimea?

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  1. “Do you actually believe the worst about him?”

    Digging up that poor dead Patriot and having his wife serve him dinner is a true story. I can’t imagine anything in worst taste. There is something about Banastre Tarleton that is not quite the gentleman. He was passed over for a generalship in the Napoleonic Wars in favor of Wellington.

  2. If Obama and Kerry keep this saber rattling and stirring up of rebellion in the Ukraine, Russia could very well 1) cut off gas to Central Europe, 2) sell off its 300 billion in US Treasury bonds, and 3) back the ruble with gold. There would be a mad dash for the exits and out of the dollar by such countries as China and God only knows what sort of worldwide financial panic would ensue.

    This would actually be a best case scenario for American secessionists.

  3. Wellington was more politically connected. His brother was a very savvy political operator. Wellington had also succeeded in India in very recent times.

    He did say O’Neil and not McShane… I think he claims far too many clan/Sami/Jew etc links. If he meant he’s Irish then just say it. The story stinks.

    Who keeps track like that? Honestly? My ancestor was a brother of Brian Boru. I only know cause my name is actually derived directly from that.

  4. “Who keeps track like that? Honestly?”

    The English hereditary aristocracy that’s who. The ones who claim not to care not a whit about their entries in Burke’s Peerage or Armorial Register are lying through their teeth.

  5. You think Dalstone bothers with it?

    Look mate, the O’Neils are not Scots-Irish.

    He flubbed it. The O’Neils are stone cold Irish Catholic. Take it to the bank, Dalstone is a fucking liar. The O’Neils are defined by their opposition to the Scots-Irish.

  6. Phelim O’Neil would be spinning in his grave to find out that his extended family claimed to be Presbyterian/Calvinist Scots-Irish. Something will have gone badly wrong for this to be possible.

  7. Nevertheless the O’Neil branches that became MacLaines, MacShanes, and Johnsons migrated to Scotland during the Middle Ages and early Modern period. And everyone in Scotland became Calvinists during the Reformation except a few holdouts in The Highlands. I’m not arguing about this, I’m telling you this. Look it up if you are as ignorant of the history of your own country as you seem to be. The seven main branches of the O’Neil dynasty have fought many a battle among themselves.

    I’m really sick and tired along with the entire rest of the world with all of this Gaelic fighting and bickering for the past 1500 years. The Gaelic Scotii tribe invaded the Northern reaches of the island of Great Britain from Ireland and conquered the Picts around 500 A.D. in the first place. They have been manipulated, and invaded, and colonized, and pushed around (all the way to Australia and Appalachia) by the English ever since.

  8. They all talk the same, they all look the same, and they all have really, really similar DNA. It must be stupid genes they all share. West Virginia is the Whitest State in the Union and has the lowest average IQ and the morons in Northern Ireland are still fighting the religious wars of the Reformation 400 years after the fact. How dumb is that?

  9. Plus Belfast is a rust-belt shit-hole of a decrepit industrial city, people in Glasgow no longer even speak any understandable form of English, and Donegal has better surf. Erin Go Bragh! (six days early)

  10. Rudel, thanks for trying to set the Cap’t with no charity straight about the O’Neils. Genetic testing by Family Tree DNA proves I’m a descendant of Nial of the Nine Hostages, whom all the various branches of the Neil Clans come from. As for the silly claim that I’m a “f***ing liar”, I’ve told the truth about my ancestry, my thoughts and feelings about Jews and Jewish culture, and my concerns about Russia. The claim that I “enthusiastically embraced” my supposed “Jewish Identity” upon late life discovery is a damn lie. The only ethnic identity I embrace is Scot-Irish, the only religious identity I embrace is traditional Catholicism. My only reaction to my discovery was surprise and relief. Surprise that Crypto-Judaism existed in Southwestern Virginia, where my American ancestors came from, and relief that this hateful religion was not passed down to me. I abhor the Talmud, and any form of religious or secular Judaism or Judaizing, like Zionism, dispensationalism, whatever. And I had those thoughts and feelings about those things two decades before my discovery.

  11. Yet you style yourself Steve ‘Scot-Jew’ Dalton elsewhere, and inform us here that ‘Dalton’ is a Jewish name (as it is) and regale us with Dalton, Israel, home of the Dalton Vineyards — and claim They are ‘fighting on the same side’ with white Ukrainians just as the Finnish Jews fought alongside white Finns.

  12. The O’Niels were practically exterminated by the Plantation.

    The Plantation landed on Plymouth Rock and Jamestown as well.

  13. Dalstone,

    As his commentary suggests is more Old Estonian than he is old Usterian.
    The passion he has for one thing is quite self evident.

  14. Another thought…

    Ulster Scots, that all look the same (to Rudel)?

    The Plantation people are readily identifiable. The Blonde Brunette/ Ginger split is matter of a sub category of local humor.

  15. Dalton,

    You said something about Clan O’Neil.

    1671 English landowner in Ulster: ‘and have got their genealogy so exactly by heart that though it be two hours work for them to repeat the names only from whence they are descended lineally, yet, will they not omit one word in half a dozen several repetitions; from whence I gather they say them instead of their Pater noster’.

    The Plantation was put there to stop this tribal warlordism. This clan based military/pastoral bullshit and civilize the herdsmen. The Ulster-Scots did it quite well. The above quote is quite funny.

    Clan, what fucking clan?

  16. To the Cap’t and Mosin, why are you two trying to start a flame war? I’m not the least interested in debating a couple of low information geniuses. I come on this blog to learn and inform, not to get into arguments with people who have an axe to grind about ethnicity or religion.
    Cap’t, Rudel has already exposed your pathetic ignorance of Scottish and Irish history, quit while you’re ahead, before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.
    Mosin, if I were you, I wouldn’t push the one drop thing. It might boomerang on you. You might discover you have some Saxon or Jewish ancestry. There was a fairly large Jewish population in Wales in days gone by, so some of them might have ‘dropped in’ on your family. Oh, btw, Mosin, the one drop rule isn’t scientific, no research was ever done to valid the idea.

  17. Why would ‘the one drop rule’, or law of ‘hypodescent’ (the legal term), ever need to be PROVEN? Why would it need ‘research’? It simply is what it is.

    The colonial government of Virginia led the way in 1662 with the first codification on this continent, and the last known ruling (on hypodescent) was in 1985 when a Louisiana court ruled that someone with ONE great-great-great-great-grandparent who was Black could NOT be identified as ‘white’ on a passport.

    The one drop rule has been applied primarily to African mixture, but it also has OTHER applications in which it can guard us against much more SUBTLE and dangerous mixing.

  18. You were having a bloody melt down about what your Finnish granny told you once.

    Pull the other one mate.

  19. Re: ‘people who have an axe to grind about ethnicity or religion’:

    On this site EVERYONE who is WN has ‘an axe to grind about ethnicity and religion’. Everyone else, just enjoy the multiculture.

  20. What we have here is an ethnogenic myth.

    However, the traditional roll of kings and its chronology is now recognised as artificial. The High Kingship did not become a reality until the 9th century, and Niall’s legendary status has been inflated in line with the political importance of the dynasty he founded. Based on Uí Néill genealogies and the dates given for his supposed sons and grandsons, modern historians believe he is likely to have lived some 50 years later than the traditional dates, dying circa 450.

    Kinda interesting. I do know that my patronymic ancestor was at Clontarf and supported his brother fighting the Vikings. Not a quasi-mythological figure, peddled to gullible yanks and slightly desperate Catholic Irish looking for a lost glory.

  21. Galwanar Samir-Singh walks through Belfast one day. A mob of loyalists surround him and ask him where he’s from. What are you doing here darkie? Where you from?

    I’m from Dehli

    The mob attacks him and beat the shit out of him.

    The mob leave Samir bleeding on the pavement. Parting comment…

    It’s Londonderry you Fenian bastard.

  22. Mosin and Cap’t, you both seem to have a morbid fascination with my ancestry. Get over it before it consumes you. And Mosin, the one drop rule is idiotic. It claims that if a person has a non white ancestor, even hundreds of years back, he’s a non white. I suggest you read what George D. Tillman said in 1895 about how destructive the rule would be in practice on this page. BTW, George was the brother of Pitchfork Ben Tillman.

  23. “A mob of loyalists “

    Loyal to whom? Or did you mean Unionists, the folks who were kicked out of the Conservative Party? And it’s original and true name is Derry (“Oak Grove” in Gaelic.) Even a lot of Ulster Protestants call it Derry. And unlike that shit hole Belfast, it is a charming town. Since the native population is overwhelmingly Irish (and hold Irish passports) the slum dwelling white trash marchers have to be bused in once a year. The natives want no part of them. LOL!

  24. This article ends with admonition that ‘The avalanche of media lies and distortions is powerful indeed, and it can fool most people (…) BUT IT CAN NEVER HAVE MORE POWER THAN REAL PEOPLE WHO TALK TO THEM DIRECTLY. Even the most “lemming-like” among us will PREFER TO FOLLOW THOSE AROUND US RATHER THAN DISTANT PEOPLE projected on a TV screen. If we can be powerful voices of truth IN OUR CLOSE COMMUNITY, WE CAN OVERPOWER THE MEDIA AND THEIR LIES’ — therefore ‘show strength to those around you. This will give them the confidence to listen to your more detailed explanations. We must never show weakness or doubt when trying to inform the people’. Even full-time involvement in travel to distant lands to stage public demonstrations, internet ‘activism’, fundraising, creating and distributing literature, etc. can never approach the power and influence of simply being an honest true friend and witness of truth to your own kin and neighbours and home community.

  25. That’s a widely circulated joke Rudel.

    Why do you have the impression that I’m a high church Anglican or worse still a Presbyterian or Baptist?

    It’s quite funny because my Granddad was arrested for mutiny with the Connaught Rangers in some frontier posting in India. The Republic even honored these mutineers recently.

    Though I’d say the Ulster types are trashy enough, however those Irish among my forebears around Clare and Thomond are civilized and peaceable. Lots of poets, historians and bards. Some quite notable Irish luminaries and men of letters.

  26. “Why do you have the impression that I’m a high church Anglican”

    When have I ever implied that? I’ve always assumed you were not a church goer.

  27. So what is your beef? I’m not under an Orange Banner shoulder to shoulder with Billy Mason and the prentice boys.

  28. You mean his speech in which he claimed that ALL Caucasians have at least one drop of African blood?

    Which of these is the commonsensical, workable definition of Whiteness: (1) not having a single drop of non-white blood (according to laws of hypodescendence such as the Racial Integrity Act of Virginia, 1924) or (2) having less than one quarter non-white ancestry (according to the Virginia law of 1822) ?

  29. What’s this about you might find you have some Saxon ancestry? What’s wrong with Saxon ancestry?

  30. “So what is your beef? I’m not under an Orange Banner shoulder to shoulder with Billy Mason and the prentice boys.”

    My bad. Chalk it up to my poor reading comprehension when I’m drunk.

  31. “Which of these is the commonsensical, workable definition of Whiteness: (1) not having a single drop of non-white blood (according to laws of hypodescendence such as the Racial Integrity Act of Virginia, 1924) or (2) having less than one quarter non-white ancestry (according to the Virginia law of 1822) ?”

    Neither. Octoroons are still niggers. The percentage of recent African admixture can be easily discerned with a DNA ancestry test. It should be mandatory for all Southrons with brown eyes as there are many niggers in the woodpile passing for White in the South. We should know who we are really dealing with.

  32. Mosin, read what Tillman said again, a light bulb may actually come on over your head.
    Hereward Saxon, that dig about Saxon ancestry was a jab at Mosin. He’s always griping about how the English are ruining Wales, (he’s a Welshman you see), so I ragged him about discovering some English ancestors. I’m part English myself, so I don’t see anything wrong about English ancestry. I’m sorry if I have incidentally offended you.

  33. Mosin is under the erroneous impression that he is somehow a pure-blooded Welshman, as if there was such a thing. Everyone with roots anywhere in the British Isles is something of a mongrel even if they are truly White. recent DNA analysis has shown that the amount of Celtic blood in the average inhabitant varies from 40% to over 80% on a cline from the Eastern coast of England to the far West in the Aran Islands.

    It only takes $100 to $150 to have something like 1,000,000 of your DNA SNPs analyzed for ancestry from various companies. I’m sure a lot of Southerners on this site would be unpleasantly surprised should they do so.

  34. Rudel, your idea of mandatory government DNA testing for all brown eyed Southrons would be a disaster. Read what Tillman said in that link above. It would create years of unending unrest that would destroy harmony in families, cities, and states. I have no objection to private individuals doing it, like certain groups of Ultra-Orthodox Jews do for genetic conditions, but leave the state out of it. We have enough government snooping in your lives already.

  35. The mongrel idea is cooked up by Multiculturalists , multiracialists to justify the ongoing extermination of the natives in London, Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham, Leicester, Luton, Bristol.

    I fail to see how there is much difference between Danes and the English, or Irish for that matter. The Icelanders are more Mutt, the Danes are more Mutt, the Norwegians look like a Ydna candystripe of European types. The British isles are astonishingly homogenous. Their outmigration rather than immivasion characterizes the process. Canada, US, Australia, SA, India in part, New Zealand.

    The Danes looked very English to my cynical eye anyway. The Norwegians more so.

    Anyway, all the DNA testing is conducted to Pwn dumbasses like Cobb.

  36. Dan Poole says:
    “What’s so important about maintaining land that was colonized by previous generations of greedy, delusional, gold-seeking Yankees? Why do you think most whites in California, Oregon, and Washington have always had the same ideology and political culture as the Northeast? There’s really no argument for maintaining control of those cities unless you abide by the mantra that because our race once controlled those cities, we should do so again. Should we also recolonize Africa? What about India?”

    The first sentence above pretty much encapsulates why we’re dying out. Generations of greedy, delusional, gold-seeking white people have sold out our major cities – all of them. Where does this sense that the rich southerners were somehow better than the rich northerners?

    I’ve been around the very rich of both, and I can tell you there is about zilch character in the very rich of oil country (Texas, Oklahoma). Old South compares somewhat better to the northeast richie riches, but TBH some of the founding families in NJ were way more decent than any of the ones I knew at a southern elite college who came from the south.

    This is one of the reasons I love my people, no matter how sorry some sweet southern girl on her feels for me. You guys have delusions that the southern rich somehow were on the working whites’ side. Some of the ‘yankee’ rich actually were. I’ve known enough of them. Sure some were decadent degenerates. Difference is, I haven’t known one old money southern rich person whose character wasn’t thoroughly compromised.

    Your people sold you out to begin with. It was always a blood money deal between planters and jewish slavetraders.

    My people were middle class homesteaders even way back when who worked their own land. Dan the oil money establishment in Texas relied on manipulation and coercion; aspiring oil barons had to literally bully and connive whites off the land that contained oil deposits. It is an elite establishment based on cunning and thuggery essentially. Ever see the movie There Will Be Blood, starring Daniel Day Lewis? How about Charlie Wilson’s War? Julia Roberts’ character epitomizes the evil of the Texan elite, and the scenes in both films that depict a culture based on the rape of a class of women (and of Afghanis) tell an absolute truth, which is that their culture was founded, if not wholly defined via, this depravity.

    ‘Dixie’ wasn’t oil country, as far as I know, but it’s elite derived their strength via slavery.

    You have some incredible nerve, Dan Poole. You and many on here continue to nurse some incredible delusions.

  37. ETA: Even the spoiled oil money heiress I knew at college left her home state of Texas after attending graduate school in the North. She fled the degeneracy of the Texan elite’s posture towards women, noting how much more respectfully and gracefully New Englanders (she moved to Vermont) treated women. I haven’t encountered this defection of women from the old South to the North. But I have noticed that many middle class southerners don’t support the exploitations that it’s elite championed.

    You guys are gonna lose if you don’t change, at least somewhat. Feudalism, based on slavery or oil, won’t appeal to the White middle class down there. This is the reason you’re failing to engage a broader support base. Brad has the nerve to claim the poverty in Appalachia is unrelated to the planters.

    We never thought southerners weren’t ‘smart;’ we *think* they’re obtuse. I write not to be a killjoy, but to point out that just as we needed one another to win our independence, we need to coordinate to win it once again, even if we don’t fully blend. Since it’s not clear that Dan is a southerner, I should qualify my comments, although there is some apt analogy between Dixie and Eretz Texas (Texas, Oklahoma, oil country, etc.)

  38. ‘You guys have delusions that the southern rich somehow were on the working whites’ side’:

    At least Tom Watson understood that the southern rich (including ‘the Bourbon Class’) were not on the side of poor agrarian southern whites: ‘The plain people, unorganized, unprotected, absolutely helpless. They are bled on the one hand by the Federal government and by the Privileged Classes on the other’!

  39. Watson on the evil of immigration, mostly Roman Catholic immigration at that time: ‘When a few million immigrants who haven’t been here long enough to get the foreign twist out of their tongues, go to parading the streets (…) it is not a theory that makes them do it. No theory could convince the intelligence of these newly-arrived foreigners that they have any natural right to a share in the wealth they find here. They are governed by their passions, not their reason. It is cupidity that controls them’.

  40. Mosin, you made a big deal about how I called myself Scot Jew on other sites. Big whoop! I like to have fun with my ancestral roots by making humorous references to them. I’ve also called myself vikingsifu, which refers to my Scandinavian , Finno-Ugric roots. BTW, why don’t you start using the screen name Welsher to have some fun with your roots?

  41. Re: NYYankees

    1.) As everyone here knows, there are far more Northern transplants moving to the South than vice versa.

    2.) Once again, you don’t know what you are talking about. There were no cotton, tobacco, sugar or rice plantations in Appalachia.

    4.) I’ve seen no evidence that middle class White Southerners want Northern labor unions. The UAW was recently defeated in Tennessee.

    5.) Why can’t you people follow your own advice? If want to do something, well, nothing is stopping you from doing it.

  42. “The Danes looked very English to my cynical eye anyway. The Norwegians more so.”

    And why shouldn’t they? After all the rule under the two hundred year Norse colony in Eastern Great Britain was called “The Danelaw.”

  43. Hunter/Brad, the planter economy was not wholly divisible from the border states’. There was and is a relationship and Mosin makes a good point about Watson. He was an honorable man.

    And, for your information, I and some of us up here are ‘doing something about it’ on our own. Ultimately, though, we’ll need some coordination I suspect.

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